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    Default The Rumors are True New HAAS UMC 500 !

    Ok like the title says...

    I heard "Nerdly" once kinda let the cat out of the bag on this one (HAAS youtube vid tour) and kinda dismissed it as time went on, But seems it's true...

    No idea how long this has been out / availability ?

    I know nothing about this machine BUT I think a lot of people and teaching institutions especially will be ordering this machine.

    They are probably going to get totally mauled for orders.


    UMC-500 | 5-Axis Mill | 40-Taper | Vertical Mills – Haas CNC Machines

    Base price about $120K


    __________________________________________________ ___________________________________________


    * I know diddly squat about this machine but thought a lot of folks here would (and beyond ) would be interested. I think for teaching institutions this would be an awesome way to go especially at the price-point (traditional stumbling block for having access to 5 axis at various institutions ). And... possibly not such a awkward addition to many a shop.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cameraman View Post
    BUT I think a lot of people and teaching institutions especially will be ordering this machine.
    I talked to a Selway dude (the big Haas West Coast HFO, damn near an extension of the factory) yesterday.

    They are in production, but if you ordered one, it is apparently a 9+ month wait right now. A pallet pool for it is apparently on the way (they are really pushing for a field retrofit kit, for obvious reasons). Also interesting - glass scales on the rotary axes. Comes with TCPC/DWO, probing, calibration kit. My only gripe looking at the options is that the jump to the SS machine still requires $11k to get the 15k spindle.

    I have a feeling Haas is in a home-run type situation with this thing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gkoenig View Post
    I talked to a Selway dude (the big Haas West Coast HFO, damn near an extension of the factory) yesterday.

    They are in production, but if you ordered one, it is apparently a 9+ month wait right now. A pallet pool for it is apparently on the way (they are really pushing for a field retrofit kit, for obvious reasons). Also interesting - glass scales on the rotary axes. Comes with TCPC/DWO, probing, calibration kit. My only gripe looking at the options is that the jump to the SS machine still requires $11k to get the 15k spindle.

    I have a feeling Haas is in a home-run type situation with this thing.
    I totally agree.

    Not surprised at the 9 month + wait time (a bit like the UMC 750 , but they did catch up in the end ).



    This is the cyclonic gearing systems as used in the NEW UMC-500(shows a precession type of thing) based on the one used in the UMC 1000 which is (for now) a great improvement over the UMC 750. Will be interesting to see how they manage backlash compensation on that mechanism with 1 arc min backlash (probably brought down to below 20 arc seconds ). Maybe the machine is better for positional and good 3 axis contouring but does a pretty respectable job for sim 5 axis if needed / if pressed.

    Agreed very "Righteous" they have provided rotary scales for both rotary axes as standard.

    I'm wondering if like the VM 5 model that linear scales are not advised for 3d contouring ?

    Machine weighs between 11,000 and 12,000 lbs but because its smaller volume and the sort of "cubic" relationship (when shrinking machines ;-) ) It should be proportionally more rigid than the UMC 750 (I think). "Tighter" machine all round.

    Nice kinematic calibration / TCPC and DWO as you say (comes with machine … ).

    I was doing build quote for the slower model but with an HSK 63 15K rpm (spindle) and all the advanced filtration options (taken to the max) and that worked out about $160K with probing an all that.


    [Some of those advanced filtration options might allow one to run an air spindle and even do some simple grinding perhaps.].


    Quote Originally Posted by gkoenig View Post
    A pallet pool for it is apparently on the way (they are really pushing for a field retrofit kit, for obvious reasons)
    ^^^ That really would be the ticket (that would be pretty exceptional), a truly expandable system for once rather than All in or nothing type "Offering".

    Not sure how the new spindles are for thermal growth etc. and best ways to work around that ? I know some folks have implemented 3rd party spindle chillers for other HAAS 3 axis verticals. [But other wise best not look a gift horse in the mouth (as it were). A price point (and value proposition) that is impossible to ignore.].

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    The little bastard would be perfect to free up our 750's and 1000's so figured we would pre-order five of them. I get the contract back from HFO Shenzhen and China has not only tacked on the 25% tariff they added the old 18%VAT on top of it as well.

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    Would be interesting to see how it compares with the new Doosan DVF-5000.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cameraman View Post
    Ok like the title says...

    I heard "Nerdly" once kinda let the cat out of the bag on this one (HAAS youtube vid tour) and kinda dismissed it as time went on, But seems it's true...

    No idea how long this has been out / availability ?

    I know nothing about this machine BUT I think a lot of people and teaching institutions especially will be ordering this machine.

    They are probably going to get totally mauled for orders.


    UMC-500 | 5-Axis Mill | 40-Taper | Vertical Mills – Haas CNC Machines

    Base price about $120K


    __________________________________________________ ___________________________________________


    * I know diddly squat about this machine but thought a lot of folks here would (and beyond ) would be interested. I think for teaching institutions this would be an awesome way to go especially at the price-point (traditional stumbling block for having access to 5 axis at various institutions ). And... possibly not such a awkward addition to many a shop.
    Not sure when they went "live", but I have an email from 8-2 from our local Haas sales guy asking me if I had seen it yet...

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    I think it is interesting they mention the operator door being lighter. The UMC750 door was a beast.

    Seriously, on short cycles it was a workout to open and close that door!!

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    So is HSk an option on the UMC500?

    If so I better start making holders ;-)

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    Quote Originally Posted by fmari --MariTool- View Post
    So is HSk an option on the UMC500?

    If so I better start making holders ;-)
    Yessssssssssssssssssssssssssssss ! :-)

    haas-umc-500-spindles-page-1-jpg-.jpg

    And in a bit more detail …

    haas-umc-500-15k-rpm-2-jpg.jpg

    ^^^ click on images (they blow up).

    The blurb says " 15,000 RPM, HSK-A 63 taper, (inline direct drive, 30 hp (22.4 KW) Vector drive; requires balanced toolholders with G2.5 rating above 10,000 rpm.)

    You know all that kind of stuff.

    It will interesting to see how much of a difference that an HSK spindle and properly balanced tools can or could make to a HAAS.

    That's one of their spindle options.

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    Quote Originally Posted by g-coder05 View Post
    The little bastard would be perfect to free up our 750's and 1000's so figured we would pre-order five of them. I get the contract back from HFO Shenzhen and China has not only tacked on the 25% tariff they added the old 18%VAT on top of it as well.
    That's a real bummer. Holy smokes so a reasonably optioned out UMC 500 [ @ 160K ~ish + tariff + 18% VAT (I remember that from my UK days) ---> $236K ish for a $160K machine :-( ]

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1974 View Post
    Not sure when they went "live", but I have an email from 8-2 from our local Haas sales guy asking me if I had seen it yet...
    That's good to know,

    Our local HFO also carries Matsuura and Makino, so he' always happy to keep me up to date with what's happening with Makino lol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cameraman View Post
    Yessssssssssssssssssssssssssssss ! :-)



    And in a bit more detail …



    ^^^ click on images (they blow up).

    The blurb says " 15,000 RPM, HSK-A 63 taper, (inline direct drive, 30 hp (22.4 KW) Vector drive; requires balanced toolholders with G2.5 rating above 10,000 rpm.)

    You know all that kind of stuff.

    It will interesting to see how much of a difference that an HSK spindle and properly balanced tools can or could make to a HAAS.

    That's one of their spindle options.
    I'm a haas "fanboy" (LoL), buuuttt....

    I can't imagine an HSK spindle is going to make a difference, except to your wallet. Add $20 (compared to cat40) for teh toolholder, and $20 for the coolant tube...

    I would be curious though if they would remove/add features for tool loading? I know on Mazaks you can't* load the tool using the spindle (by hand I guess) as it alarms out if there is no tool in spindle and it's a royal PITA to get it cleared IME. Haas has always been, to my knowledge, a machine that you specifically load thru the spindle, so not sure if that issue is an HSK thing or a Mazak thing (not loading thru spindle)??

    * maybe not "can't", but not advised

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    Quote Originally Posted by SND View Post
    Would be interesting to see how it compares with the new Doosan DVF-5000.
    DVF-5000 looks like a nice machine, but probably $100K more than the HAAS UMC 500. (At least .).

    Doosan does claim 3.5 micron circularity in XY plane and the allowable workpiece diameter seems a little bigger than the HAAS UMC 500/ size of part you can safely swing, not that you couldn't sneak in a longer work piece to the UMC 500 just don't swing it lol,

    DVF-5000 seems to be a slightly bigger machine overall.

    http://www.doosanmachinetools.com/br...VF5000_ENG.pdf

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1974 View Post
    I'm a haas "fanboy" (LoL), buuuttt....

    I can't imagine an HSK spindle is going to make a difference, except to your wallet. Add $20 (compared to cat40) for teh toolholder, and $20 for the coolant tube...

    I would be curious though if they would remove/add features for tool loading? I know on Mazaks you can't* load the tool using the spindle (by hand I guess) as it alarms out if there is no tool in spindle and it's a royal PITA to get it cleared IME. Haas has always been, to my knowledge, a machine that you specifically load thru the spindle, so not sure if that issue is an HSK thing or a Mazak thing (not loading thru spindle)??

    * maybe not "can't", but not advised
    That's a good question,

    I remember at a MAZAK open house West Coast I was checking out a VCN 570c (nice C frame ) and I'm checking out the ergonomics (bad back) and comment that you have to lean into the machine a long way to reach the spindle with your hand, and the guy manning the machine just stared at me like I was total crazy person / hick and says you load the tools in from the side... ~(you idiot, kind of thing lol).

    I wonder if it's a Japanese safety thing ? / standard ?

    In the case of MAZAK Integrex a lot folks work more hands on and have no problem switching in and out tools manually on something like a Capto interface ? (maybe all the alarms can be disabled ).

    Theoretically the concentricity of HSK is supposed to be better than just regular CAT 40 …

    Maybe the HSK interface helps the crashability of the machine also ? Good weak point rather than damaging the machine more extensively ?

    HAAS doesn't use the dual contact BBT ('Big-Plus") type holders ? For a 15K rpm cat 40 spindle with no spindle chiller does it matter ?


    bbt_vs_bt2-1-.jpg

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    I think it's been on the website for about a month.

    I was talking to somebody about ROI calculations for a new shop, and mentioned that the TL-1 I got back in 2012 was sold in 2015 for 97 cents on the dollar. That led to a discussion about UMCs, which is when we noticed the 500. These things are going to sell like hotcakes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cameraman View Post
    That's a good question,

    I remember at a MAZAK open house West Coast I was checking out a VC 500c (C frame vertical) and I'm checking out the ergonomics (bad back) and comment that you have to lean into the machine a long way to reach the spindle with your hand, and the guy manning the machine just stared at me like I was total crazy person / hick and says you load the tools in from the side... ?

    I wonder if it's a Japanese safety thing ? / standard ?

    In the case of MAZAK Integrex a lot folks work more hands on and have no problem switching in and out tools manually on something like a Capto ?
    Capto on Integrex is the same way on new ones anyways, load thru door on the side. It also gives you a funky alarm that is a PITA when a tool is not clamped in the spindle.

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    Concentricity is not improved with a dual contact setup. Regardless of dual contact steep taper or HSK or Capto. But Z-axis repeatability is greatly increased which is a big deal in 5-axis work. Also it is more rigid and tool holder sticking in the spindle is eliminated which can be a problem with some machines.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Orange Vise View Post
    I think it's been on the website for about a month.

    I was talking to somebody about ROI calculations for a new shop, and mentioned that the TL-1 I got back in 2012 was sold in 2015 for 97 cents on the dollar. That led to a discussion about UMCs, which is when we noticed the 500. These things are going to sell like hotcakes.
    Yup, going through the "Book of Face" for HAAS seems they may have announced it on July 12th. Or be on their HAAS Automation site earlier hidden in plain sight.

    Good point about the resale value / low/lower risk with HAAS purchases.

    The UMC 750 had quite complex alignment and installation procedures as the machine being larger volume is more dependent on it's foundation and final installation. The UMC 500 seems to have a more compact casting and "floor" plan, maybe easier to rig and re-rig. Up sticks and move.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fmari --MariTool- View Post
    Concentricity is not improved with a dual contact setup. Regardless of dual contact steep taper or HSK or Capto. But Z-axis repeatability is greatly increased which is a big deal in 5-axis work. Also it is more rigid and tool holder sticking in the spindle is eliminated which can be a problem with some machines.
    That's good to know, I always assumed that HSK and Capto receivers/ spindle noses were generally built to higher tolerances than regular CAT 40 spindles (taking into account differences in spindle runout) and reading the Big Kaiser literature that somehow better form tolerance on BBT somehow "leads" one to believe that better concentricity is made possible ? But that is just the basic requirement for a higher RPM tool holder ???

    Good point about Z axis repeatability and 5 axis.

    But as you are the guy that makes this stuff to higher specs … That makes me look at regular CAT 40 in new (more positive light) other than Mushroom / bell mouth effect of a regular CAT 40 spindle nose.

    So a HSK (A) 63 at 15K rpm is not going to give you any better surface finishes than a CAT 40 tool holder at 15K RPM ?

    __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ________________


    BTW I liked the shop tour youtube video (by / with NYC CNC / Saunders Machine Works) showing your cylindrical grinders and tool balancers. .

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    Quote Originally Posted by cameraman View Post
    BTW I liked the shop tour youtube video (by / with NYC CNC / Saunders Machine Works) showing your cylindrical grinders and tool balancers. .
    Thank you. Since then we have added a Studer CNC grinder. Even more accurate and has 60,000 rpm id grinding capability.
    @maritoolusa on Instagram: “Daily Grind - Day 28 #mth2019 Big shout out to the great guys at Integrated Machinery Systems @integratedmachinerysystems . They did a…”

    Even is "form" or angle is more accurate on a spindle taper it does not have any effect on concentricity due to elastic deformation of the spindle. Unless of coarse angle if off so much that spindle cannot deform enough.

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