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Runnin' Over sized Tool in Carousel...........

david n

david n

Diamond
Joined
Apr 13, 2007
Location
Pillager, MN
I will be running an over sized tool and I need to clear out the pockets on either side in the carousel. How do I tell the control it is over sized? I know I can clear out tools from any given pocket in the tool data list............But I still need to designate the tool as over sized and that it needs to be put back in the same pocket each time...................This is on my Doosan VNM500 Fanuc i control....................TIA
 
Check your books. That is a manufacturer specific thing, not a control specific. Probably an M-code or could be an actual user parameter they have assigned for that.
 
Tonytn36 said:
Check your books. That is a manufacturer specific thing, not a control specific. Probably an M-code or could be an actual user parameter they have assigned for that.
Click to expand...

I have been searchin my M codes and there is a M108 for oversized tool?????...........I'll try it out(with no tools in the carousel of course)
 
My OM and 18M don't have that tool size functionality. What to do is don't call another tool to the ready station while your oversize is in the spindle. One way is I call T0 and make sure the stations on either side are empty as you said. So you'll not be swapping tools, only loading and unloading one at a time. At least in the part of the program that is before and after the oversize tool. Slightly slower then normal, but crashing a tool changer is a far greater evil. As long as you have he spare pockets, this procedure will work for any number of oversize tools in a job.

Dave
 
13engines said:
My OM and 18M don't have that tool size functionality. ......
Click to expand...

Your 0M and 18M machines don't have tool size functionality because the machine builder did not implement it in their ladder program. Both those controls have a PMC that can have logic written to manage any kind of toolchanger and magazine.

What builders are they? I've often wondered about machines that lack this. Was their software dept/guy lazy or incapable? Did they think that no one ever needs to use an oversize tool?

BTW, the use of T0 will cause an alarm on many machines. Again, that's machine builder determined in their ladder program.
 
Hi Vancbiker,

OM is YCM, 18M is Mori. Haven't tried T0 on the Mori but I know it works on the YCM.

The literature for the Mori describes a complete tool management system that deals with tool weight classes. The Mori (SV-50) has a screaming fast tool change. This system will slow down the tool change for heavy tools. My machine does not have that functionality turned on or available. According to the electrical manuals it uses a two speed motor to drive the change arm which I know I do not have. I've thought about trying to install such a thing, but the heavy tools I use don't come close to the maximum listed on the capacity plate. I think it's likely more prevalent on their 50 taper machines as those tools can run the gamut on weight differences. Other than of course warnings about such things, I haven't seen anything written that talks about controller backed carousel protection of oversize tools.

Dave
 
13engines said:
....The literature for the Mori describes a complete tool management system that deals with tool weight classes.
Click to expand...

Older Mori machines used T9000-T9999 to designate an oversize tool so that it would always go back in the same pot. They also used T8000-T8999 to designate extra small tools that could go in pots adjacent to T9000 series tools. Have they done away with that method on your machine?
 
My Mori is 1997-98-ish. Not sure if that is old enough. I am going to dig into those numbers you mentioned, as they could come in handy some day.
 
Paul from Doosan helped me out..............quite simple......................Put the large tool in the middle pocket and zero both pockets on either side of the tool. Call the large tool with a tool change..............T28 M06. Then when I need the next tool, don't stage it. Run only an M06 and it puts the large tool right back into the same pocket it came out of and then call the next tool...........T2 M06.............

T28 M06;
M06;
T2 M06;
.................................................


Thinking out loud just to confirm I'm right:D...............But I was looking at the tool sizes.........Doosan says max tool Ø is 80mm(3.150")..............I will be running a 4"Ø slitting saw. It would still easily fit in any pocket as long as non of the other tools exceeded roughly 2.3" or so..............right? All of the other tools I have in the carousel are under 2" Ø. Max tool Ø would be two 3.150"Ø tools side by side(center to center distance of the tool pockets). So I should be able to run this 4" saw next anything that is smaller than 2.3"Ø:scratchchin:......No need to designate it as large just as long as I don't run anything else large(bigger than 2.3")? Right?!?!???..................
 
david n said:
Paul from Doosan helped me out..............quite simple......................Put the large tool in the middle pocket and zero both pockets on either side of the tool. Call the large tool with a tool change..............T28 M06. Then when I need the next tool, don't stage it. Run only an M06 and it puts the large tool right back into the same pocket it came out of and then call the next tool...........T2 M06.............

T28 M06;
M06;
T2 M06;
.................................................


Thinking out loud just to confirm I'm right:D...............But I was looking at the tool sizes.........Doosan says max tool Ø is 80mm(3.150")..............I will be running a 4"Ø slitting saw. It would still easily fit in any pocket as long as non of the other tools exceeded roughly 2.3" or so..............right? All of the other tools I have in the carousel are under 2" Ø. Max tool Ø would be two 3.150"Ø tools side by side(center to center distance of the tool pockets). So I should be able to run this 4" saw next anything that is smaller than 2.3"Ø:scratchchin:......No need to designate it as large just as long as I don't run anything else large(bigger than 2.3")? Right?!?!???..................
Click to expand...

Makes sense to me............Funny, I am setting up a job right now with a 4"x .062" saw, slitting triple-clamp pinch splits, LOL
 
wheelieking71 said:
Makes sense to me............Funny, I am setting up a job right now with a 4"x .062" saw, slitting triple-clamp pinch splits, LOL
Click to expand...

I can't see having any issues on my Doosan.............but on my VF2, Haas stages the next tool automatically. So a simple single M06 wouldn't work......................Right? Not that I'm running this in the Haas. I know you have to actually designate the tool as large on a Haas...............
 
david n said:
Thinking out loud just to confirm I'm right:D...............But I was looking at the tool sizes.........Doosan says max tool Ø is 80mm(3.150")..............I will be running a 4"Ø slitting saw. It would still easily fit in any pocket as long as non of the other tools exceeded roughly 2.3" or so..............right? All of the other tools I have in the carousel are under 2" Ø. Max tool Ø would be two 3.150"Ø tools side by side(center to center distance of the tool pockets). So I should be able to run this 4" saw next anything that is smaller than 2.3"Ø:scratchchin:......No need to designate it as large just as long as I don't run anything else large(bigger than 2.3")? Right?!?!???..................
Click to expand...

That is the way we ran oversized tools in the Haas I used to run, till we happened to have 2 oversized tools in the machine at once and hung up the tool changer.

That was when we found out about marking tools oversized. :crazy:
 
david n said:
...................Put the large tool in the middle pocket and zero both pockets on either side of the tool. Call the large tool with a tool change..............T28 M06. Then when I need the next tool, don't stage it. Run only an M06 and it puts the large tool right back into the same pocket it came out of and then call the next tool...........T2 M06.............
Click to expand...

How this works will be machine specific and may require you to set some rules about operating the machine. An old Okuma Howa I worked on would work sort of like you described above, but a problem would occur if anyone manually moved the magazine while the large tool was in the spindle. The M6 only command would swap tools with whatever tool was at the change position. In this particular machine the large tool was an 8" face mill so it would pretty much crash any tool in pots along side it.
 
I have also seen this implemented as a simple check box in the tool ofsets table too.
 
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