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Shop full of 'dead' CNC equipment

MushCreek

Aluminum
Joined
Jan 7, 2018
I work for a strange company, and one thing that puzzles me is that they have a number of CNC machines that I've been told are 'dead'. The story goes that they've been disconnected from power for so long that the memory batteries are gone, the parameters lost, and the cost to restore them is more than the machines are worth. I have no idea if any of this is true, but it's frustrating to see all that equipment gathering dust while I get by with manual machines and one Kent CNC bed mill. Here's what we have:

Acra VMC, model FVMC-1020E with a Mitsubishi control. It does power up, but I can't get it to move or do anything. Appearance-wise, it looks like it's had very little usage, as all the machines look.

Kiaturn 15 turning center. LG-Yasnac control. Not even connected to power.

Charmilles Roboform 40 EDM. Again, spotless condition. Tool changer and tons of 3R tooling. Appears to be connected to power, but does nothing at all when you try to turn it on- no relays kicking in or anything.

Sodick Mark 25 WEDM. Also doesn't power up at all, but appears to have power.

Shigiya GPS-30 ID/OD grinder. Fanuc 0i-TB control. Looks virtually brand new. I haven't messed with this one at all.

The only functional EDM we have is one of those crappy Taiwanese 'Charmilles' that weren't worth the bother when they were new.

As I said- it's a strange place. We have 12 guys in the tool room working on molds, but all we do is preventive maintenance and some minor repairs. They spend tens of thousands per month on replacement tooling that we could be making in-house. I've been told that our people 'don't have the skills', when I know that at least 6 of us do have the skills and experience. I have 40 years experience designing and building molds, but they just have me doing grunt work. They are using about 20% of my potential. For some reason, management HATES the tool room. I've never experienced such contempt, and I've worked in a lot of shops over the years. I would leave, but it's close to the house, and I'm close to retirement, so I'm trying to ride it out for a few more years. I worked my way into making parts for their specialized assembly equipment, so I'm reasonably happy.

Back to the original topic- Are these machines really worth nothing? I asked why they don't sell them, as the shop is very jumbled and crowded. Apparently, they've used them as collateral for borrowing money, so they can't sell them. BTW- This isn't a small Mom-N-Pop; we have over 200 employees and do over $15 million a year.
 
I suggest you just let it be. Companies do all kinds of odd things that make no sense to anyone.

I've seen this time and time again. I was in a die shop of a large company. They had at least 15 surface grinders. I believe 2 were actually working and the third was just setup for cutting pins.

I needed to machine some parts on a lathe and mill. They must have had 6 engine lathes. I was told that only one was suitable for the job and it was booked for a few days.

I've seen that over and over. A machine breaks and the guys find a way to work without it. Pretty soon everyone just forgets about it. It gets lost in the ether. The bigger the company, the more machines are abandoned in place.


I have another customer who won't buy parts to fix their machines. They just buy another used machine and take parts off of it. So they literally have 2 or 3 copies of every machine but only one at most is running, or will ever run, at any given time. Then they complain that they never have enough space...
 
Wow. Whoever agreed to accept them as collateral got bought. Yes they're worth something, but probably not nearly what they're claiming they're worth on paper. Having been left to sit for so long I bet they've got rust on the ways and screws.
 
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I asked why they don't sell them, as the shop is very jumbled and crowded. Apparently, they've used them as collateral for borrowing money, so they can't sell them. BTW- This isn't a small Mom-N-Pop; we have over 200 employees and do over $15 million a year.

I'm no expert but I think this may be important to understanding this situation, perhaps your employer is owned by a private equity firm? Sometimes a company can seem to be in the business of making things but the new owners are really in the business of taking on debt, pillaging assets and riding on any remaining strength of the business before they bail themselves out. Seemingly dysfunctional management is often a visible symptom but this is a feature not a bug to predatory PE...
 
It used to be a family-owned business that has been bought and sold several times in recent years. I assume these 'ownership groups' milk every penny they can out of it, try to make it look good on paper, then flip it to the next investment group.

I'm mostly interested in the potential condition of the controllers, though. What's involved in getting them back on-line? Does it really cost that much? Judging from the expired licenses on the computer that they used for Solid Works and CAM, the machines have been down for a couple years.
 
...BTW- This isn't a small Mom-N-Pop; we have over 200 employees and do over $15 million a year.
$15 Million gross sales and 200 employees? That sounds like going out of business to me- I was doing $5 mil/yr with 12 guys, and I thought we were top-heavy, lol.
 
I have been on the hunt for a turning center that needs some attention like the Korean machines or a Hurco, Okuma, Mazak...

Depending on why is was parked it can be hard to say. I ran across a Okuma that just had a dead power supply, the power supply was backordered, and it was an excuse for the management to buy another machine to have one in there right away. Seems like some of these bigger shops forget about a machine when they push it in a corner as it is out of sight out of mind. Its not costing money or making money, the CNC tech was out to fix another machine and ended up buying the Okuma from them since they had already bought another machine and had it in service.
 
Just my $0.02...

When my wife worked at Disney she did a stint in the purchasing department. Every year each department was given a budget. If they didn't spend their entire budget they didn't receive as much money the next year. At the end of every fiscal year there was a mad dash to spend what was left in the account. My wife told me she spent tens of thousands of dollars replacing things like big screen TVs that had only been used two or three times. What was replaced got sent to the warehouse. Maybe that's how it is where you are.
 
You should look in the control cabinet for backups of the parameteres, either a floppy or printed. Keep in mind if you try to be too useful it may cause problems with your employer.
 
one tech who is good at fixing cnc control issues is like having the guys weight in gold. controls and electronics really i have seen many times 2 guys struggle to get machine back running. maybe figure it out in 8 hours. then regular tech comes back from vacation and machine back running in less than a hour.
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other things is having CAG's written. basically a few pages on things to try Correct Action Guidelines to get machine back up and running. i have seen this help get machines running in 10 minutes usually once a week past 4 decades. shops with no CAG's written have to wait for old timer who often just remembers you have to press 3 certain buttons in at the same time, then other 2 then , etc machine back running. trouble is if you dont know how, its like not know combination to a Safe you aint ever going to open it.
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i write CAG's as i learn machines. many a time a new guy has thanked me when machine not running i just give him a copy and he get machine back running often in 10 minutes. CAG's are much faster than going through 2000 page set of manuals that may or may not have the info. often maintenance tech has his own set of CAG's of stuff he fixed before and how he did it. he finds problem looks up copy of his notes or CAG's on problems and tries what fixed problem before.
 
i have also seen building with 18 production machines and some were written off for tax deduction and or paying less tax on non functional equipment. guys would put sign on front RIP December 12, 2001 like a tombstone in cemetary
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we were not allow to use old machines for tax reasons. i have seen 10 story building knocked down to avoid having to pay taxes. literally company would pull out satellite picture to prove they didnt have to pay taxes on building that is not there any more. only way to do it in States where they tax business right into bankruptcy
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heck of a way to make a company profit to have buildings demolished often 3 or 4 at a time
 
I work for a strange company, and one thing that puzzles me is that they have a number of CNC machines that I've been told are 'dead'. The story goes that they've been disconnected from power for so long that the memory batteries are gone, the parameters lost, and the cost to restore them is more than the machines are worth. I have no idea if any of this is true, but it's frustrating to see all that equipment gathering dust while I get by with manual machines and one Kent CNC bed mill. Here's what we have:

Acra VMC, model FVMC-1020E with a Mitsubishi control. It does power up, but I can't get it to move or do anything. Appearance-wise, it looks like it's had very little usage, as all the machines look.

Kiaturn 15 turning center. LG-Yasnac control. Not even connected to power.

Charmilles Roboform 40 EDM. Again, spotless condition. Tool changer and tons of 3R tooling. Appears to be connected to power, but does nothing at all when you try to turn it on- no relays kicking in or anything.

Sodick Mark 25 WEDM. Also doesn't power up at all, but appears to have power.

Shigiya GPS-30 ID/OD grinder. Fanuc 0i-TB control. Looks virtually brand new. I haven't messed with this one at all.

The only functional EDM we have is one of those crappy Taiwanese 'Charmilles' that weren't worth the bother when they were new.

As I said- it's a strange place. We have 12 guys in the tool room working on molds, but all we do is preventive maintenance and some minor repairs. They spend tens of thousands per month on replacement tooling that we could be making in-house. I've been told that our people 'don't have the skills', when I know that at least 6 of us do have the skills and experience. I have 40 years experience designing and building molds, but they just have me doing grunt work. They are using about 20% of my potential. For some reason, management HATES the tool room. I've never experienced such contempt, and I've worked in a lot of shops over the years. I would leave, but it's close to the house, and I'm close to retirement, so I'm trying to ride it out for a few more years. I worked my way into making parts for their specialized assembly equipment, so I'm reasonably happy.

Back to the original topic- Are these machines really worth nothing? I asked why they don't sell them, as the shop is very jumbled and crowded. Apparently, they've used them as collateral for borrowing money, so they can't sell them. BTW- This isn't a small Mom-N-Pop; we have over 200 employees and do over $15 million a year.

200 million over 200 workers is nothing
yes the machines are scrap material, you do not
list any mazak, okumas,mori not even fadal or hass
so probably they are right,but to use as collateral
how much they borrowed 5k a piece at the most.
 
I assume the op is a moldmaker. It is managements job to supply the moldmaker with tools and machinery that are capable of machining the parts they need. It is the moldmakers job to know how to operate them. Fixing them is a machine repairmans job.
 
I assume the op is a moldmaker. It is managements job to supply the moldmaker with tools and machinery that are capable of machining the parts they need. It is the moldmakers job to know how to operate them. Fixing them is a machine repairmans job.

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many bosses see maintenance as a expense that can be cut. a properly run shop the maintenance guys are like the maytag repairman with nothing to do. boss who dont know any better lays the guy off as unneeded. not realizing cause the guy is better than average the reason he has nothing to do is cause he is good at his job.
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many a boss who is ignorant looks at guys running around putting out emergencies which always seem to be occurring as good workers got to have them. not realizing the best guys fix stuff even modify stuff so it dont break down as often. i did this all the time in maintenance. start job, working on maintenance 5 days a week. 5 years later working on maintenance 2 or 3 days a week (cause equipment not breaking down as often)and in the shop the rest of the week making spare parts often better designed spare parts. took boss 5 years to realize this and allow me to improve equipment. at first it was only a occasional improvement. after 5 years its do what you think is best
 
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many bosses see maintenance as a expense that can be cut. a properly run shop the maintenance guys are like the maytag repairman with nothing to do. boss who dont know any better lays the guy off as unneeded. not realizing cause the guy is better than average the reason he has nothing to do is cause he is good at his job.
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many a boss who is ignorant looks at guys running around putting out emergencies which always seem to be occurring as good workers got to have them. not realizing the best guys fix stuff even modify stuff so it dont break down as often. i did this all the time in maintenance. start job, working on maintenance 5 days a week. 5 years later working on maintenance 2 or 3 days a week (cause equipment not breaking down as often)and in the shop the rest of the week making spare parts often better designed spare parts. took boss 5 years to realize this and allow me to improve equipment. at first it was only a occasional improvement. after 5 years its do what you think is best

What does this have to do with the op having the equipment to do his job?
 
What does this have to do with the op having the equipment to do his job?
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got everything to do with getting non functional machines working. i see everyday machines not working. how long it takes to get back up and running can be having the right people to work on it and having spare parts which often are no longer made and have to have parts be made in the shop
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working in maintenance is often a unappreciated thankless job. many eventually find a different type of job. thats what i did and i make a lot more money too
 
In my experience skilled trades like machine repair pay considerably more than a cnc machinist. I made $6 an hour more than a cnc setup person.

That's also why the repair guys are often the first on the chopping block. Companies fall all over themselves to cut off their own nuts.

I've been in big companies where they fired all the company maintenance people and farmed the work out to the lowest bid contractor. The company pays less $/hour of repair work so the bean counters all jump for joy. But, the contractor have no ownership of the machines, so they have no motivation to do things right and make repairs that last. They want to get it done as fast as possible to maximize profits.

It's a fine line. I've been to shops with hundreds of machines and a maintenance staff of one or two guys. All they do is schedule outside contractors to come in and coordinate the various repairs being done. If the guy in charge is knowledgeable and the company keeps up with maintenance, it works pretty well. If things are put off and corners are cut, it eventually catches up to them.
 








 
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