Soon to be New Machine Day Thread - finally bought a Brother
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    Default Soon to be New Machine Day Thread - finally bought a Brother

    Finally bought a little Brother s500 today with their new T200 roller gear cam 4th axis. Anyone know of any good online tutorials on their control? It doesn't look too bad but new controls are always an adventure. BTY, if anyone is thinking about buying one anytime soon, they have some screaming deals on some in stock machines at IMTS.

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    Congrats on the new machine. It was great to talk to you.

    Andy

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    The control is pretty easy, somewhat basic, but very very solid.

    The best way to describe it is that it's like Brother hired all the Fanuc engineers who aren't virgins married to their multimeter - C-00 is logically laid out, descriptive of what options are available, and doesn't have silly pitfalls and bizarre labels. It isn't perfect, but if you've run any CNC machine before, you'll be hunt-n-pecking with it in an hour, decent within a week, and very comfortable in 2-3 weeks.

    - All your setup happens in the Data Bank, where work offsets and tools are set up. Changes made to the data bank are finished with a "completion mode" soft key that asks you to confirm what you've done before you exit (there is a YT video or two on this from Yamazen Dallas). Setting tools and work locations is very straightforward. My only wish is that there was a Split function on work offset input, just to make it a bit easier to manually set the center of stock and the like, but with probing? Who cares.

    - Program memory is quite flexible and easy to use - hit Mem, type in a program number, hit enter and you're done. You can easily list programs, and they do let you set up folders if you want. Since I have my laptop next to the machine, I really only have 1 or 2 active programs at a time and they are always numbered 1001 or 1002 or sometimes 1003.

    - Your machine will be set by Yamazen with a bunch of programs for your probe system (assuming you got probing). These act as pre-configured wrappers to call the macros that drive the most common probing applications. Programs 1-22 are for tool setting (O0001 sets tool 1, O0002 sets tool 2, etc.) Program 22 is for you to edit on the fly by changing a couple of numbers in the macro call to set off tools sequentially (1-7, for example). 700 series programs fire off spindle probe macros - you manually position the probe and call up 707 to do a single touch .25" down in Z to set G54 Z, or program 701 does a single touch in X+ to set G54 X. A handful of other programs in memory in the 8000 range are master programs for probing routines or calibration. Yamazen provides a nice manual for their spindle probing and you can do all the common stuff. You can tweak these and get the machine to do exactly what you want (I modded the tool macros to air blow while moving to save time, and it calls the tool by pocket, but sets by actual tool number, since they can be different).

    - Before the machine arrives, snag this $23 USB powered WiFi box from Amazon (Amazon.com: TP-Link N3�� Wireless Portable Nano Travel Router - WiFi Bridge/Range Extender/Access Point/Client Modes, Mobile in Pocket(TL-WR8�2N): Computers & Accessories) and a short (~24") Cat 5 eithernet cable. The control is Linux with full networking capabilities under the hood, and Yamazen can set your machine up with WiFi and BrotherCom software. It's pretty great! Do work with sales and get your BrotherCom software before the installer arrives (it's too big to drop in an email, and Brother won't let it out on the internet as an easy download for some reason, so they need to bring a USB stick with them). It's super amaze to be able to quickly post out a tweak to a program, throw it to the machine via WiFi, and literally watch the code text update on the machine - all with no wires connecting them.

    - My only gripe is the lack of a decent MDI, it's a blemish on an otherwise amazing machine. I do mostly prototype and low run work, so lots of setups, tool swaps, and probing funky stuff. The Brother MDI is a single line affair that can only execute 1 line of G-code, no macros, and no G65 subprogram calls. That means all probing, tool touch offs, or basic automatic maneuvers (like moving the table to a loading position) need to happen through programs. I've come to terms with this by setting up a couple of scratch programs I can get to quickly, but it is monumentally stupid. In my old Robodrill, I had programs mapped to custom G-codes to do all sorts of tricks very quickly (probe a tool, move a tool to the install/remove position, split offsets, etc). None of that is possible on a Speedio. Oddly, the control makes it very easy to map a macro program to a custom G or M code, and it has a parameter to allow these to "Run in MDI." This would solve my problem, but it was added relatively recently and doesn't seem to work. I'm hoping this gets solved soon? Brother is just now getting into job shops/prototype use (after 30 years as production workhorses), and the infrastructure you see in the control says they are working on this. If you're doing a couple of parts a week or even a part a day, it's no big deal (I did 5 parts and 12 setups yesterday for a prototype... so that's why I'm frustrated enough to be vocal about it).

    - Since I griped, let me go back to the praise and say some very cool things - Brother is constantly improving these machines and adds pretty significant enhancements via updatable firmware. For example, you'll see threads from Drinkwater griping that High Accurace Mode B won't cut helical moves. That was solved with firmware and now Mode B works perfectly through anything you throw at it. I'm assuming my MDI gripes (at least the custom G/M code function) will be up and running soon-ish. Brother gives a shit about machines in the field and listens to customers. Yamazen has been an extraordinary help and has fantastic support.

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    I agree completely, with one caveat. How is it in 2018 that we don't have labeling for macro variables in the controller? I either have to remember that #514 is my toolsetter height from the table, or I have to dig through a bunch of program lines to find what the probing subprogram is calling.

    A few things are clunky, but man do these things make chips fast. BTW if you are removing any real amount of material, GET A CHIP CONVEYOR. I chose S700s as perfect for the work we were doing, and then they got dedicated to an R&D project for a bunch of work we'll have coming in for the new 5-axis, which are much larger parts and much more material removal. If we did a production run i'd have one of the guys literally standing behind the two machines emptying chip bins as fast as they fill.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mickey_D View Post
    Anyone know of any good online tutorials on their control?
    It's more or less identical to a Fanuc control if you have experience with those. With a handful of differences.
    Make use of the Menu Shortcut feature, it will save you some frustration.

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    Congrats with the new Brother!

    Coming from a Haas control, I was a few concerned with the transition, specially with probing and tool setting. Like people mentioned above, it was really easy.

    I do a lot of prototyping and short runs (20 pieces is production for me). Yamazen made a great job customizing the probing and tool setting programs. I use the 9## variables in the data bank as my GUI.

    The shortcut keys are very helpful.

    I don't use MDI at all. Everything is thru CAM, so I don't have any complains about it.

    I only miss 2 things from the Haas control:

    1.- Be able to use any format for the name of the program, instead the stupid O####.
    2.- Quick simulation of the program to detect incorrect G-M codes, out of limit travels, etc... (At least I didn't figure it out yet).

    Accuracy modes and tool path errors can be a few annoying until you find your 'comfy spot'.

    Overall, really happy with the control and the machine. And of course, the outstanding support from Yamazen!

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    Quote Originally Posted by gkoenig View Post
    The best way to describe it is that it's like Brother hired all the Fanuc engineers who aren't virgins married to their multimeter
    Thanks, another coffee cup over my keyboard... LOL.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gkoenig View Post
    The control is pretty easy, somewhat basic, but very very solid.

    - Since I griped, let me go back to the praise and say some very cool things - Brother is constantly improving these machines and adds pretty significant enhancements via updatable firmware. For example, you'll see threads from Drinkwater griping that High Accurace Mode B won't cut helical moves. That was solved with firmware and now Mode B works perfectly through anything you throw at it. I'm assuming my MDI gripes (at least the custom G/M code function) will be up and running soon-ish. Brother gives a shit about machines in the field and listens to customers. Yamazen has been an extraordinary help and has fantastic support.
    To clarify, is there an update on the B modes that were left blank/same values from the factory? All of mine are the same and I'd love to have the correct values.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DFrench View Post
    To clarify, is there an update on the B modes that were left blank/same values from the factory? All of mine are the same and I'd love to have the correct values.
    I put the same values from A mode. A and B are the same. The only difference is the amount of blocks looking ahead.

    You will have to play with different values, until you find the best balance. In my case, I only use M285 and I have the corner and arc deceleration override values around 500.

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    Congratulations on the new S500 with 4th. We are a few years into using Brothers and still marvel at how they dramatically reduce machining time.

    Others have already responded re: the control. Our shop personnel picked control basics in just a few days. If you use a CAM system there are some tweaks that may be needed to add high accuracy mode code and control of such things as chip wash down; posting here or on your CAM forum should provide good advice.

    Fred

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2outof3 View Post
    Congrats on the new machine. It was great to talk to you.

    Andy
    Curious...are Brother machines covered under Trunp's tariffs? If so, why/how can Brother have screaming deals at IMTS as Mickey says?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug View Post
    Curious...are Brother machines covered under Trunp's tariffs? If so, why/how can Brother have screaming deals at IMTS as Mickey says?
    Are we having a trade war with Japan? (Must have missed the memo). Think Mickey's comment related to machines already 'in stock'; would assume tariffs are not retroactive.

    Fred

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug View Post
    Curious...are Brother machines covered under Trunp's tariffs? If so, why/how can Brother have screaming deals at IMTS as Mickey says?
    Maybe US stocked machines?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Freds View Post
    Are we having a trade war with Japan? (Must have missed the memo). Think Mickey's comment related to machines already 'in stock'; would assume tariffs are not retroactive.

    Fred
    we will be soon apparently

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    Quote Originally Posted by DFrench View Post
    To clarify, is there an update on the B modes that were left blank/same values from the factory? All of mine are the same and I'd love to have the correct values.
    The Yamazen guys are at IMTS right now talking with Brother Japan guys to get these settings ironed out, as well as how to instruct us small shops on how to use the M28x codes. Along with this, they are also talking about how to instruct us on using thermal comp correctly, and I imagine some other things as well.

    Right Andy?

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    Here is a video I made a long time ago, kinda shows how to get around the control.


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    Quote Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
    The Yamazen guys are at IMTS right now talking with Brother Japan guys to get these settings ironed out, as well as how to instruct us small shops on how to use the M28x codes. Along with this, they are also talking about how to instruct us on using thermal comp correctly, and I imagine some other things as well.

    Right Andy?
    In my first week trying to figure out the accuracy modes, I suggested to my sales person that it will be great if Yamazen can make like seminars or workshops across the technical centers, for the accuracy modes. It will be helpful, specially if they're targeting small job shops.

    I won't mind to travel, or incur in hotel cost, diets, etc...

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    Quote Originally Posted by riabma77 View Post
    In my first week trying to figure out the accuracy modes, I suggested to my sales person that it will be great if Yamazen can make like seminars or workshops across the technical centers, for the accuracy modes. It will be helpful, specially if they're targeting small job shops.

    I won't mind to travel, or incur in hotel cost, diets, etc...
    That seems like huge overkill for something like this. I'm just hoping for a one page instruction sheet for some various features to clear up what the manual doesn't elaborate on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by riabma77 View Post
    Maybe US stocked machines?
    Yes, I noticed the part about in-stock machines, but I assume importers might raise in-stock prices to cover for increased costs of machines not yet in-stock due to tariffs. Or, maybe they don't?

    In general, what about importers quoting on machines not already in-stock, presumably they have to account for tariffs. Maybe they quote pre-tariff pricing with a little footnote in the quote allowing the price to be 20% higher if the tariffs are not discontinued at time of machine entry to this country.

    Obviously, I don't fully understand the effect tariffs might be having on importer's machine quoting.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jid2 View Post
    Here is a video I made a long time ago, kinda shows how to get around the control.

    I was gonna bug you one of these days for that slick probe quick reference sheet you made up. Yamazen should print/laminate them up and include them with all probes (and they should throw in that TP Link WiFi dingus with every machine, just to undercut Haas's $2000 WiFi option).

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