Soon to be New Machine Day Thread - finally bought a Brother - Page 2
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  1. #21
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    Just to update my wall-O-text:

    Scott @ Yamazen just followed me up in a month + old email chain we had together about the Brother MDI. Turns out, my final point that Brother updates these machines on the fly is proven again! Custom G/M Codes in the MDI is getting activated on the next firmware update in a few weeks, so my only real gripe with the machine? Fixed!

    That's why you buy a Brother!

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    Quote Originally Posted by gkoenig View Post
    Just to update my wall-O-text:

    Scott @ Yamazen just followed me up in a month + old email chain we had together about the Brother MDI. Turns out, my final point that Brother updates these machines on the fly is proven again! Custom G/M Codes in the MDI is getting activated on the next firmware update in a few weeks, so my only real gripe with the machine? Fixed!

    That's why you buy a Brother!
    Happy for you.

    Scott is a great guy. He installed my machine and did the training. Very smart and responsive!

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    I'll sell you my sister on a screaming deal...

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    Quote Originally Posted by gkoenig View Post
    Just to update my wall-O-text:

    Scott @ Yamazen just followed me up in a month + old email chain we had together about the Brother MDI. Turns out, my final point that Brother updates these machines on the fly is proven again! Custom G/M Codes in the MDI is getting activated on the next firmware update in a few weeks, so my only real gripe with the machine? Fixed!

    That's why you buy a Brother!
    More info please! I hate Brother's MDI mode. Somebody in Japan needs to buy a Coldfire-II equipped HAAS, and spend some time navigating/using the control.

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    I got one of the S500X1's on special too, very excited for a real mill. Once this hurricane blows over I should be able to take delivery!

    I'll be running mine off a Phase Perfect in my garage. No 4th yet, but it's on my radar. The T-200 is an indexer only correct?

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    T200 is full 4th zero backlash roller table. All 4th rotaries Yamazen sells (Brother, Yukiwa, Nikken, Koma...) are full 4th.

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    Frank, I thought the Yukiwa JNCH I have on my Speedio from Yamazen was an indexer only?

    I saw the new Brother rotary at IMTS today - it was just as spooky fast and smooth as the machine it was on. Also had a robot loading the machine, which piqued my interest...

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    Quote Originally Posted by BROTHERFRANK View Post
    T200 is full 4th zero backlash roller table. All 4th rotaries Yamazen sells (Brother, Yukiwa, Nikken, Koma...) are full 4th.
    Oh interesting, I asked my salesman about a lower cost smaller 4th, and he mentioned they may be getting an indexer only, the t200 I thought he said. I don’t think an indexer will work for me with wrapped engravings. I’ll just be saving for a 4th, or if I see something small on eBay that will work may try it out sooner.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wheelieking71 View Post
    More info please! I hate Brother's MDI mode. Somebody in Japan needs to buy a Coldfire-II equipped HAAS, and spend some time navigating/using the control.
    We aren't getting a full MDI, but you will be able to go to the user parameters and link a program to a custom G or M code. Once you've done this, you'll be able to call that code (with arguments!) in the MDI and fire it off.

    For example, you can wrap the primary O8700 spindle probe master program in a G code. Instead of having to go to a program and modify it to do the probing you want, you'll just be able to call it directly. On the Robodrill, I always used a G code that was the first 3 digits in the program number, so on my Speedio, it'll be G870. If I want to probe X and Y to set G56, just go to the MDI and hit 'G870 X-.25 Y-.25 W56" and it's done.

    I've already got programs set up to do tricks like move any tool to the install position without any guesswork, and move the table to various loading positions based on arguments (G777 P1 will move the table to my vise, G777 P2 will move it so the rotary is closest to the door and the Lang lock is presented, etc). I used these sorts of things *all the time* on the Robodrill... it'll be nice to have it back!

    I have to suspect Brother is aware of their MDI limitations. They are seeing BIG growth in American and European job shops ever since the Speedio came out. It really wouldn't take a huge amount of effort on their part to make something really fantastic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Finsta View Post
    Frank, I thought the Yukiwa JNCH I have on my Speedio from Yamazen was an indexer only?

    I saw the new Brother rotary at IMTS today - it was just as spooky fast and smooth as the machine it was on. Also had a robot loading the machine, which piqued my interest...
    the JNCH170 is a great table and quick too. H is for high speed. it is full 4th and to make it really fly you can turn the clamping off with M440 or M442, check your programming manual. That is what they did with the T200 at the show . Clamping should be used for most operations though unless you are trying to eek out every second.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BROTHERFRANK View Post
    the JNCH170 is a great table and quick too. H is for high speed. it is full 4th and to make it really fly you can turn the clamping off with M440 or M442, check your programming manual. That is what they did with the T200 at the show . Clamping should be used for most operations though unless you are trying to eek out every second.
    Yea, they are full 4 th. I have 4 of the JNCH170's on an R2B.

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    Well you learn something every day! I thought it was a bit expensive for just an indexer but it was fast on paper so I shrugged it off! LOL

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    Other than the control study up, any other things to be aware of for us new Brother owners?

    I've read around that some make riser blocks, are they needed? Or only in rare situations?

    At the moment I only have a 4" vise, but I'm planning to mostly do pallet stuff that won't often get changed out. I was hoping to just bolt a block of aluminum to the table, will I be able to do that and then drill/tap? Or does it need to be first in a vise or stacked up higher?

    Any other quirks like that to be aware of, or tooling that will help out.

    BTW, anyone else looking at a Brother S500, I agree now is the time. The IMTS package is not only a screaming deal as the OP mentioned, but it comes with a $3k tooling budget and the tool setter (but not touch probe), which for me was fantastic!

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    If it's interesting / helpful for somebody, this is how I'm probing:


    First, I put all the entry data in the macro variables:

    0915180817_film1_resized.jpg

    #900 Work Offset
    #901 X
    #902 Y
    #903 Z Stroke


    Second, you call the probing subroutine. It looks like tis:

    0915180821a_film1_resized.jpg


    It's fast and almost fool-proof. You don't have to edit every program. The only thing I don't like is the completion mode key.

    Thinking to insert the table assembly (vises, part, etc...) in the CAM Part, moving the probe to a specific location, and execute the probing subroutines from there. Looking to get ready of jogging now and the completion mode key.

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    Quote Originally Posted by droshi View Post
    Other than the control study up, any other things to be aware of for us new Brother owners?

    I've read around that some make riser blocks, are they needed? Or only in rare situations?

    At the moment I only have a 4" vise, but I'm planning to mostly do pallet stuff that won't often get changed out. I was hoping to just bolt a block of aluminum to the table, will I be able to do that and then drill/tap? Or does it need to be first in a vise or stacked up higher?

    Any other quirks like that to be aware of, or tooling that will help out.

    BTW, anyone else looking at a Brother S500, I agree now is the time. The IMTS package is not only a screaming deal as the OP mentioned, but it comes with a $3k tooling budget and the tool setter (but not touch probe), which for me was fantastic!
    1. With 4" vises, I think you will want risers. I use a pair of 6" 688's (2-7/8" bed height") and am generally unable to use the stubby sidelock endmill holders unless I use taller jaws.

    2. ~7.1" is the minimum spindle nose to table distance. So if you are trying to work on something bolted to the table, you would need pretty long gage length tools.

    3. Keep the coolant level near the top. Once it drops down a little, you will be unable to run chipwash (if so equipped) at the same time as flood coolant.

    4. Use a segmented rougher (I really like Destiny Diamondback) so the chips are short bits, and not long strings. Long strings will knot up and get stuck in various places, and/or block up the discharge chutes.

    5. The chip pan will fill up fast if you are getting after it. I clamp a piece of 1/4" aluminum plate to the end of the chip pan to give more room to pile up chips in between emptyings.

    6. Learn about M28x high accuracy modes, when to use them, when not to use them. They work great when turned on, but drastically slow HSM/Dynamic Mill/Adaptive Clearing toolpaths.

    7. Make sure you stay on top of coolant foaming -- there is not much headroom in the tank when it is full, so if the coolant starts foaming, and the chip pan has a layer of chips in it, the foam will push up over the front edge of the tank and make a little lake. BTDT.

    Regards.

    Mike

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  22. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by droshi View Post
    Other than the control study up, any other things to be aware of for us new Brother owners?

    I've read around that some make riser blocks, are they needed? Or only in rare situations?

    At the moment I only have a 4" vise, but I'm planning to mostly do pallet stuff that won't often get changed out. I was hoping to just bolt a block of aluminum to the table, will I be able to do that and then drill/tap? Or does it need to be first in a vise or stacked up higher?

    Any other quirks like that to be aware of, or tooling that will help out.

    BTW, anyone else looking at a Brother S500, I agree now is the time. The IMTS package is not only a screaming deal as the OP mentioned, but it comes with a $3k tooling budget and the tool setter (but not touch probe), which for me was fantastic!
    The distance from the spindle nose to the table is 7.1 inches. Most vises are 3inches to the vise bed; plus what ever height is provided by parallels. With 30 taper, good idea to keep mill stick out minimal and use short tool holders. If mostly drilling, not so much of an issue.

    Suffice to say, it depends on tooling, type ops, and configuration of your pallet system. Where risers and the like become a concern is if you have parts mounted right at or near table level.

    In the case of our S1000X1 (same 7.1 inch distance) we have aligned Kurt vises mounted to the table and clamp our fixtures/pallet receivers into them...this obviates any need for risers and provides plenty of flexibility.

    Congrats on the new machine!!

    Fred

    EDIT: Oops, looks like Mike got there ahead of me. Just one comment about his item #3. Because of the chip wash systems ability to starve the spindle coolant flow if it runs all or a great deal of the time, we only run it between certain ops. The key is a setting in the user parameters called something like 'chip wash flow after turn off'. You can turn the chip wash on and then immediately turn it off - but it will continue to run for up to a minute and an half after turn off. We've found this to be very effective at flushing the chips while not starving coolant flow to the cutter; and its usually an easy feature to add to most CAM system post processors.

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    I agree with everything Mike said.

    Be careful with small tool holders (ER11, SK6, etc...) and short gage lengths. At least for me, are hard to install and remove them from the carousel.

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    Just purchased the IMTS S700 demo machine.
    My only concern is the 7.1" reach to the table. My parts are machined on swappable sub plates. So .750 ground steel plate on the machine bed. Then a .750 mic-6 swappable sub plate on top of the steel. The plates bring me down to a reasonable (I think) 5.6" reach for my parts.
    The problem is i need to machine ball lock pockets into the steel sub plate requireing a long reach? Any thoughts.

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    We were in a similar situation to machine our Pierson pallets for our vises for fast swaps, and then same thing for any other pallets we make. We just have to use tool extensions. We've got some ER16 collet extensions that we can stick in 3/4" side lock holders to get the extra reach. We've found jobber drills usually work but for anything up in our vises we tend to use swiss machine length drills.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Freds View Post
    In the case of our S1000X1 (same 7.1 inch distance) we have aligned Kurt vises mounted to the table and clamp our fixtures/pallet receivers into them...this obviates any need for risers and provides plenty of flexibility.
    Thanks everyone, that all makes sense, this bit above is what I've been thinking about. In the future I do want to go with the Pierson pallet system as it would make change-overs fast, but at the moment I'm looking at dialing in a fixture plate and will likely just leave it on the table or in a vise for a while.

    I've just been thinking about how I would mill the bottom of the pallet to a dovetail (with a matching vise jaw). I guess just clamping to the table still seems like the ideal, but does look like I would need a 5" or so set of riser blocks to get it up to the range of being able to mill without having a super-long holder or tool.

    I'd like to go with stub length drills and short endmills and holders wherever possible, which in most cases is probably everything for me as most of my parts are pretty flat without major depth to them or big clearance issues.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Finsta View Post
    We were in a similar situation to machine our Pierson pallets for our vises for fast swaps, and then same thing for any other pallets we make. We just have to use tool extensions. We've got some ER16 collet extensions that we can stick in 3/4" side lock holders to get the extra reach. We've found jobber drills usually work but for anything up in our vises we tend to use swiss machine length drills.
    PPS sounds great for me long-term, though I think again I would prefer a riser than tool extensions. Any reason you didn't go with risers under the PPS base?


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