Speedio 10k High Torque Experiences

StirlingMachine · Sep 18, 2020

Hey folks, I'd be curious to hear from people who have used the 10k high torque models. I have a speedio S700 with a 16k dual contact spindle. I'm very happy with it. I also have an aging Hurco 40 taper machine, that is becoming less reliable. I'm toying with the idea of replacing that with a 10k high torque speedio and would like to hear what people have to say. Cheers

BROTHERFRANK · Sep 19, 2020

The Brother High Torque spindles are excellent. It has about 3 times the torque as a standard spindle. I set one up to tap 3/4 NPT and it handles it like butter. Die cast aluminum but still impressive. Also we run a 1.6" drill in steel and tap 1"-8 in steel no sweat. Still runs on a 30 Amp breaker (10.4 KVA). It will run 10k all day. Accelerates 0 to 10k in .1 seconds. 10k forward to 10k reverse in .2 seconds. High Torque has 15mm larger bearings than 16k. Steel bearings versus ceramic. Very rugged. Drawbar force is about 200 lbs higher, Big Plus is standard. Coupling between motor and spindle is massive too to handle the torque. I have several clients that have replaced all of their 40 taper machines after trying out the High Torque. That being said it is not a 40 taper. We still recommend running 5/8 and under end mills as short as possible and hsm or hem toolpaths. A big step up from the standard torque BT30 machines though for larger tools, heavier cuts and longer stickouts. If you run end mills primarily under 3/8 and very short (under 1") axial depth of cut the 16k may be a better fit. The extra rpm will help with smaller tools and chamfering/engraving.

Here is a High Torque machining steel. The 'laughing(roughing)' end mill and the slitting saw made my heart skip a beat.

[brother] Machining example of SPEEDIO "F600X1".(Steel) - YouTube

eaglemike · Sep 19, 2020

I have 2 of them. I've been very very happy with them. It's incredible that they still run on only 30 amps. One is a 450 pallet machine, the other a 700. I know the pallet machine costs a bit more than a 700 or 1000, but if your parts fit, you'll start wondering how you didn't get one before.

StirlingMachine · Sep 19, 2020

Is the drawbar force in the 10K high torque higher than in a 16K BBT spindle?

p-terp · Sep 19, 2020

eaglemike said:
I have 2 of them. I've been very very happy with them. It's incredible that they still run on only 30 amps. One is a 450 pallet machine, the other a 700. I know the pallet machine costs a bit more than a 700 or 1000, but if your parts fit, you'll start wondering how you didn't get one before.

Agreed! We just got our first R650x1 in our shop and there is no other machine I'd want again other than 450's or 650's. The pallet is absolutely unreal. Spindle is now on all day. We have a 16k dual contact and its awesome.

Rick Finsta · Sep 19, 2020

I destroyed one using a 3/4" tool and too-long stickout... got lucky a second time I was told to run the same tool and stickout by the guys that took over the leadership role from me where it pulled out but didn't break the pull stud (I was a fucking ninja on the E-stop).

You have more torque for drilling and tapping, and you can use the motor curve for slower SFM tooling as long as you run short stickouts. No matter what, it is still a BT30 pull stud.

Very capable machines if you select tooling and toolpaths accordingly!

fmari --MariTool- · Sep 19, 2020

I have always been hesitant to make 1" endmill holders for the BT30 taper. But after some requests and some of my customers using specialty tooling such as broaches that have a 1" shank I will make them next. I still wouldn't recommend a 1" endmill for milling but for drilling with 1" shank drills, why not. Especially with how much torque these new machines have.

I will not be able to make the gage length as short as our 1/2 and under endmill holders but I will try the shortest possible without compromising the taper strength.

BROTHERFRANK · Sep 19, 2020

StirlingMachine said:
Is the drawbar force in the 10K high torque higher than in a 16K BBT spindle?

I haven't measured a 16k BBT. I think they would be similar.

StirlingMachine · Sep 19, 2020

Yeah, pretty much echoing what I've heard and reinforcing what I thought. I feel like I have a good handle on what the taper is capable of at this point after running the 16k dual contact for the last few years. I've done a few silly things with it but kept it chill and generally recognize what it is and what it isn't. The reality is that most of my work that goes on the 40 taper does so for table space reasons, not rigidity reasons. Or just because the speedio is busy with other things. There is an occasional job that actually puts the 40 taper to work with its strengths. But in reality I could most likely still do those jobs just with a different approach, and still be ahead, or just pass on those jobs and be fine with it. I am currently running a job that looks like it will become regular repeat work, and doing most of the stock removal with a 2" high feed in stainless. And I don't think the 16k spindle would push that at reasonable chipload and stay in the SFM range to get good tool life. But everything else about the parts screams BT30. Max depth of cut in the entire part family is 3/4". And from what I can tell the high torque would push it just fine so long as I'm reasonable with tool setup.

Nerdlinger · Sep 19, 2020

We have/had a 16k S700 but had to baby a 5/8 carbide drill in 4140. We have a 10k high torque now and it’s like 60% spindle load at .014ipr. So I guess it really IS higher torque...

Rick Finsta · Sep 19, 2020

I ran high feed mills quite a bit in both 16k standard and the 10k high torque spindles. Pushing up into the spindle really seemed to negate any long stickouts I was using.

StirlingMachine · Sep 19, 2020

Rick Finsta said:
I ran high feed mills quite a bit in both 16k standard and the 10k high torque spindles. Pushing up into the spindle really seemed to negate any long stickouts I was using.

Nice. What's your high feed mill of choice? I just started using them in the 40 taper machine. Tried out the new YG1 system because the price was right to give it a try. So far my experience is that it's not necessarily cheaper but damn is it cost effective from a material removal per dollar of carbide point of view.

Mtndew · Sep 21, 2020

BROTHERFRANK said:
The Brother High Torque spindles are excellent. It has about 3 times the torque as a standard spindle. I set one up to tap 3/4 NPT and it handles it like butter. Die cast aluminum but still impressive. Also we run a 1.6" drill in steel and tap 1"-8 in steel no sweat. Still runs on a 30 Amp breaker (10.4 KVA). It will run 10k all day. Accelerates 0 to 10k in .1 seconds. 10k forward to 10k reverse in .2 seconds. High Torque has 15mm larger bearings than 16k. Steel bearings versus ceramic. Very rugged. Drawbar force is about 200 lbs higher, Big Plus is standard. Coupling between motor and spindle is massive too to handle the torque. I have several clients that have replaced all of their 40 taper machines after trying out the High Torque. That being said it is not a 40 taper. We still recommend running 5/8 and under end mills as short as possible and hsm or hem toolpaths. A big step up from the standard torque BT30 machines though for larger tools, heavier cuts and longer stickouts. If you run end mills primarily under 3/8 and very short (under 1") axial depth of cut the 16k may be a better fit. The extra rpm will help with smaller tools and chamfering/engraving.

Here is a High Torque machining steel. The 'laughing(roughing)' end mill and the slitting saw made my heart skip a beat.

[brother] Machining example of SPEEDIO "F600X1".(Steel) - YouTube

Why are they calling it the laughing end mill? Is that something that just got lost in translation?

TeachMePlease · Sep 21, 2020

Mtndew said:
Why are they calling it the laughing end mill? Is that something that just got lost in translation?

Because it's laughing at the steel!

trochoidalpath · Sep 21, 2020

Mtndew said:
Why are they calling it the laughing end mill? Is that something that just got lost in translation?

English pronunciation is objectively difficult. The first syllable of "roughing," depending on your accent, can sound more like "RAughing" than "ROughing." (Compare with how we pronounce "ROwing.")

So "roughing" probably got transliterated into something like "rafingu" (katakana ラフィング).

But, Japanese doesn't have an "L" sound. The Japanese "R" sound is somewhere between an English "R" and "L." (It's pronounced with the tip of the tongue just touching behind the front teeth... it's a difficult sound for native English speakers to make.) So "R" and "L" are often confused.

And "lafingu" really sounds like "laughing," so....

BROTHERFRANK · Sep 21, 2020

What he said! Translation issue... It does laugh at the steel though

mutiny · Sep 21, 2020

trochoidalpath said:
English pronunciation is objectively difficult. The first syllable of "roughing," depending on your accent, can sound more like "RAughing" than "ROughing." (Compare with how we pronounce "ROwing.")

So "roughing" probably got transliterated into something like "rafingu" (katakana ラフィング).

But, Japanese doesn't have an "L" sound. The Japanese "R" sound is somewhere between an English "R" and "L." (It's pronounced with the tip of the tongue just touching behind the front teeth... it's a difficult sound for native English speakers to make.) So "R" and "L" are often confused.

And "lafingu" really sounds like "laughing," so....

Fascinating! I'll never remember this, but I look forward to stumbling through some half-correct explanation of it next time this comes up!

Fal Grunt · Sep 22, 2020

fmari --MariTool- said:
I have always been hesitant to make 1" endmill holders for the BT30 taper. But after some requests and some of my customers using specialty tooling such as broaches that have a 1" shank I will make them next. I still wouldn't recommend a 1" endmill for milling but for drilling with 1" shank drills, why not. Especially with how much torque these new machines have.

I will not be able to make the gage length as short as our 1/2 and under endmill holders but I will try the shortest possible without compromising the taper strength.

I was very sad to buy two Sowa GS 1" holders when I tooled up my Brother to hold my broaching, annular cutters and other odd ball tools.

Any plans to make more 20mm holders in the future?

fmari --MariTool- · Sep 22, 2020

I will probably make some when making the 1". Thank you.

Rick Finsta · Sep 22, 2020

StirlingMachine said:
Nice. What's your high feed mill of choice? I just started using them in the 40 taper machine. Tried out the new YG1 system because the price was right to give it a try. So far my experience is that it's not necessarily cheaper but damn is it cost effective from a material removal per dollar of carbide point of view.

I've been using the Seco with LPHT inserts (R217.21-01.25.0LP06.4A is the part number but they make a shorter version, too, and different insert sizes) and have had great success, but the old shop where I learned to love them switched to Sandvik for 3XX and 17-4 stainless work and they are getting better insert life. I haven't seen issues with the MP3000 grade from Seco but they do a LOT of stainless work and I really don't. Not enough to see a pattern at any rate.

Fair warning: Seco is VERY proud of their tooholders and the inserts aren't exactly free. But absent chip recutting, they seem to last forever. I would love to try the Sandvik stuff (I've never been upset when I chose Sandvik, and usually forget about the cost as soon as I'm in the cut and making money) but I have zero need to switch since I do so little of it.

If you already have a system I wouldn't rock the boat unless you start having problems. You'll almost never match HSM for material removal with High Feed but the process reliability is off the charts.

Speedio 10k High Torque Experiences

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Plastic

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Titanium

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Aluminum

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Diamond

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Cast Iron

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