Spindle rebuild on my 2001 Kitamura, a how to with some questions. - Page 2
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  1. #21
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    And kind of my favorite photo, of the Z axis ways. They are about 1.5" x 3.1".

    ways.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidScott View Post
    .....Can I disconnect the 3 power wires to the chiller to turn it off? I have access to where they connect to the chiller and it would be easy to do. There is no breaker or manual switch to disconnect the power......
    That's what I do. Also, the wires connected to terminals 60 and 61 are probably the alarm signal. Look for those in the Kitamura wiring diagram to verify before doing anything to bypass an alarm.

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    Should I disconnect the power and try it to see if I need to do anything with the alarm wires first? Or try to find out more about the alarm wires? I found P3 and 616, it shows the two unconnected. I don't know how to read the schematics so a photo is in order soon.
    Does this tell us enough?

    chiller-4.jpg

  4. #24
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    Does Kit even make verts anymore?


    -------------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ox View Post
    Does Kit even make verts anymore?


    -------------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox
    Yes, but I am afraid they now use linear rails in the Z axis . The only 30 taper is a horizontal though.

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    [Ref #21] Beefy. Any idea of the condition of the slideway bearing surface? No signs of excess motion on the head?

    On the drawbar ring, any sign that the clearance between the pin and its mating bore is excessive or worn oval? And what sort of lock washer was missing? A split type? I hate those...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Milland View Post
    [Ref #21] Beefy. Any idea of the condition of the slideway bearing surface? No signs of excess motion on the head?

    On the drawbar ring, any sign that the clearance between the pin and its mating bore is excessive or worn oval? And what sort of lock washer was missing? A split type? I hate those...
    I do need to tighten up the head clamps, either grind them flat or replace the turcite. Side to side it is good but easy to tighten up with gibs. Currently the head knods forward about .0015" over 14" so not too bad but not good either.

    No, it was quite snug. There is some fretting on the coupling from the ring but not bad considering the hours. Everything came apart beautifully! The lock washer was a split type that is on the one screw. I note it because it has already lost one pin, don't want that happening on my watch! It must have made quite a racket.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidScott View Post
    And kind of my favorite photo, of the Z axis ways. They are about 1.5" x 3.1".

    ways.jpg
    That looks like a mini version of what I have on the Excello 408. ("The Money Pit")
    Those aren't solid ways like they appear, but rather they have roller cartridges that ride on the box way.


    -------------------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ox View Post
    That looks like a mini version of what I have on the Excello 408. ("The Money Pit")
    Those aren't solid ways like they appear, but rather they have roller cartridges that ride on the box way.


    -------------------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox
    They are Turcite lined, I'm positive about this. 1400 ipm in Z and 2000 ipm for X and Y, which is hard as hell on the waycovers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidScott View Post
    The lock washer was a split type that is on the one screw. I note it because it has already lost one pin, don't want that happening on my watch! It must have made quite a racket.
    If the screw will function correctly without the split washer, think about ditching it and use a low to medium strength locking compound after cleaning the threads. Should be more reliable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidScott View Post
    They are Turcite lined, I'm positive about this. 1400 ipm in Z and 2000 ipm for X and Y, which is hard as hell on the waycovers.

    If it has 2 pc covers, you could just edit the rapid feedrate param.
    I have done that for that reason before.


    ------------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox

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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidScott View Post
    ......Does this tell us enough?......
    Yes it does. A jumper between 60 and 61 will bypass the alarm signal.

    The note "To 4616" will most likely be some kind of cross reference as to the continuation of those wires. It might mean page 46 line 16 in the schematic. Builders get to decide for themselves how they structure diagrams so you have to do a little head scratching to decode what the reference is telling you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ox View Post
    That looks like a mini version of what I have on the Excello 408. ("The Money Pit")
    Those aren't solid ways like they appear, but rather they have roller cartridges that ride on the box way.


    -------------------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox
    Kitamura's pretty proud of their box ways. That's their thing. Fast rapids without rails.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidScott View Post
    I do need to tighten up the head clamps, either grind them flat or replace the turcite. Side to side it is good but easy to tighten up with gibs. Currently the head knods forward about .0015" over 14" so not too bad but not good either.......
    I always had the keeper plate ground a hair lower than the Turcite and then scrape in the Turcite. Get it sooner rather than later. If the head is allowed to droop for a long period the Turcite on the head will be worn along the bottom leaving no contact after you take up the keepers. I have seen that on a couple machines where a .0015" feeler gage could be pushed in a couple inches between the way and the Turcite. One of those, the customer wanted fixed so ended up having to pull the head and replace the Turcite and scrape it all in. Was a lot of work.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vancbiker View Post
    Yes it does. A jumper between 60 and 61 will bypass the alarm signal.

    The note "To 4616" will most likely be some kind of cross reference as to the continuation of those wires. It might mean page 46 line 16 in the schematic. Builders get to decide for themselves how they structure diagrams so you have to do a little head scratching to decode what the reference is telling you.
    To jumper can I screw 61 onto 60 or do I need to remove the two wires opposite them and jumper there? And thank you very much for all of this help!

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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidScott View Post
    To jumper can I screw 61 onto 60 or do I need to remove the two wires opposite them and jumper there? And thank you very much for all of this help!
    No need to remove the wires opposite. You can connect P3 and 616 by screwing them onto 60 or 61. I usually use an alligator clip type jumper wire. That way I get a visual reminder that I have jumpered something out. It would be easy to forget (especially at my age) that I connected the wires to a common terminal thereby rendering the alarm signal non-functional.

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    Pulled the hot wires from my chiller, jumpered P3 and 616, fired it up and no alarm. Got as much oil as I could drain out of the spindle jacket, pulled the mister lines out of the top of the spindle, 5 of the 6 bolts holding the spindle to the head casting, blocked it up as close to an overtravel as I could, removed the last bolt, and raised the head. Perfectly uneventful! Looks like this spindle has been pulled out before and at least the coupling section pulled off. Here are some photos and now for a few questions.

    My big question. I have the end caps pulled off but the spindle isn't moving. From the drawing it looks like there are plugs to direct the air/oil mist to the bottom bearings that protrude into the cavity between them that may be in the way. In the second and third photo from the left, the two cavities with grey silicone? filling them. Should I remove the silicone next to see about removing the plugs? I can't delete one of these photos and add a print photo so this is going to have to extend to another post.

    The second photo from the right shows the spindle side of the coupling after removing the Speith nut. The far right photo shows the nose with the end cap removed. If you look real close at the notch in the labyrinth spacer you can see what looks like metal chips. They are, looks like little steel chips from a 1/4" corn cob mill. I also found what looked like a brown sand size plastic, it looks like phenolic race that is ground up.




    spindle-out.jpgspindle-1.jpgspindle-plugs.jpgspindle-side-coupling.jpgspindle-nose.jpg

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    Here is the print photo showing the plugs I am talking about. In the notes 94 is a plug, 95 & 96 are nozzles, 97 is an O-ring, and 98 is a set screw. In the middle photo, there are two SHC screws that are directly below the nozzles with the heads under the nose cap.




    print-3.jpgspindle-nose-1.jpgspindle-top.jpg

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    Are changing the bearings yourself? If not then you should send out the entire cartridge to whomever is going to do the rebuild.

    If you are doing the rebuild then yes, you will need to remove the nozzles to get the bearing set free. I don't know how Kitamura do their nozzles, but, on other machines they are directional so be sure to note that if it is the case. Also the air oil tubing sometimes is fitted all the way through the housing to the nozzle. Be a little careful with pulling that apart so you do not shear off some of the tube.

  21. #40
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    If at all possible I want to do the bearings myself. I already pulled the tubing out and was surprised at how long it was, right down to the nozzles. All went well and the air/oil tubes are wrapped in a clean baggie. I pulled the thermocouple? out of the spindle housing for its safety, I assume I can use the same silicone? goop to seal the nozzles back up with. What should I use? Blue Permatex?

    I am photographing EVERYTHING before disassembly.


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