Spindle rebuild on my 2001 Kitamura, a how to with some questions. - Page 3
Close
Login to Your Account
Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123
Results 41 to 48 of 48
  1. #41
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Country
    CANADA
    State/Province
    Alberta
    Posts
    131
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    24
    Likes (Received)
    74

    Default

    Hi David,

    You seem to be on the right track. Just make sure you pull those nozzles and then you should be able to press out the spindle with it's two angular contact bearings from above and it shouldn't take much force to do so. Put a little heat from a heat gun on the housing and it'll make it even easier to feel if you are hung up on something. I recommend against using hydraulic presses on spindles, use an arbor press or even a home made plate with threaded rod like a puller just so you get as much feedback as possible as to the force your applying.

    As for sealing it back up, that is a good question. I would use a RTV sealant that is able to handle the oil you use for your chiller. As long as the compatibility is there for that you should be fine. My Kitamura used permanent grease lubrication for it's bearings top and bottom so the air lubrication system parts you are dealing with are not something I had to deal with on that particular spindle, assuming they are for lube and not just light airflow to prevent coolant ingress like my Hitachi VS50 used. It was grease too but had low pressure air fed to the inside of the bearings to keep coolant and chips getting in them. This is great but as with air lube your air must be kept very clean and dry as I'm sure you know. My Deckel Maho MC800H uses this on all bearings for the 5 axis trunnion and pallet carrier too. It does far more harm than good if the air has moisture or debris in it.

    Feel free to let me know if you need any further feedback regarding this. Bearing orientation and preload setting when you order is important. You may not need the roller bearing changed on the top, it doesn't see nearly the wear the bottom bearings do, depends on your situation.

    Dave @ Nerv

  2. #42
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Washington
    Posts
    2,739
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1047
    Likes (Received)
    1076

    Default Wtf!

    So I think I found the route of egress for the metal chips I am finding on the bearing race and vents. The air/oil goes into the spindle jacket on one side, to the bearings, then out the other side of the bearings through a vent hole that runs the length of the spindle jacket. This vent hole has a corresponding hole in the bottom end cap to vent the air/oil air down beside the nose of the spindle. It is .265" in diameter so it's not small. If you blow off the spindle nose at all your blowing chips and coolant right into the bearings. Granted it is common sense not to blow the nose of the spindle off but what about if your drilling with TSC and coolant gets jetted into the hole, the lowest bearing is less than 2" up the hole. Here is a photo of the spindle nose with the end cap held next to it, mating surfaces facing the camera. The holes I am talking about are next to the upside-down 3 on the spindle jacket and with the notch cut to it on the end cap. This just seems like a poor design to have the bearings so easily contaminated with just a little carelessness. If nothing else it seems the hole should be vented out the side of the cap instead of straight down.


    end-cap-vent.jpg

    After getting the spindle out of the jacket I decided not to go any farther and have put it back together to send off and have it done. I don't have a press or any of the tools needed so my time is better spent doing the paying assembly work I have booked while the spindle is down. Looks like it's going to Setco so now I have to make a box for it to ship it. The spindle weighs 46 lbs, which is quite a bit lighter than I was expecting. More photos to follow both to show the different parts, how they work, and what the top bearing looks like.

  3. #43
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Washington
    Posts
    2,739
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1047
    Likes (Received)
    1076

    Default

    Dave, I just saw your post, thanks for responding. Once I found out the brass nozzles have a 3mm thread in the end so once I found a longer 3mm screw they came out easily and the spindle came out fairly easily. It is definitely air/oil lubed at 8 cfm so lots of air that has to be clean and dry. The roller bearing is shot and setting the preload on that one sounds like a lot of fun. I am glad I did as much as I did since I have learned a lot about this spindle that will help me take care of it. I am running out of time so it is best to farm this job out.

  4. #44
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Washington
    Posts
    4,403
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    805
    Likes (Received)
    2371

    Default

    That does seem an odd design. One could argue that with positive pressure coming out that hole nothing should get in. Unfortunately there is probably no airflow when the spindle is not running or the power is off.

    I think I would try to fit a porous bronze air muffler to block chips and coolant but still allow airflow and oil drainage.

  5. Likes Milland, Brian liked this post
  6. #45
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Washington
    Posts
    2,739
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1047
    Likes (Received)
    1076

    Default

    I would be scared a bronze muffler would restrict the air exhaust causing some backpressure. I will do something just not sure what yet. The airflow stops 4 minutes after the spindle but still, I would expect to see some type of protection. The spindle nose has a .01" gap and a spring labyrinth seal. The exhaust has NOTHING!!!! to keep chips out.

    So a lot has happened but I have an hour to update. Here are some photos of some of the spindle components and the box I made to ship it. Photos from left to right show:
    Brass lube nozzles in the spindle. If you look close you can see the hex set screw in the middle. Remove it and you can thread a screw in to remove the nozzle after removing the o-ring.
    The brass nozzles with o-rings and retaining caps. The nozzles are keyed into the bearing spacer so they can not be installed incorrectly. The air/oil lines snake through the spindle housing and seat in the nozzle counterbores.
    The top bearing, looks kinda bad.
    The box I made to ship my spindle. Solid 3/4" plywood that I epoxied together so I am not relying on the screws alone to hold it together.
    The spindle and tool holder in the box ready to close the lid.

    The spindle weighs 46 lbs and the shipping weight on the box was 64 lbs. It shipped FedEx ground from just east of Portland OR on Friday for $42 and was delivered on Monday in L.A., can't complain about that.


    .spindle-lube-nozzles.jpglube-nozzles.jpgtop-bearing.jpgbox.jpgbox-spindle.jpg

    Setco called me on Wednesday morning with the results of the teardown and inspection to find out what type of a rebuild I wanted, such as total budget to perfection before giving me a firm quote. Thankfully all bearing journals are within spec but the grippers are very worn and the taper had a bad regrind so building it back with chrome would be a good idea. An hour later I received the quote with their Terms and Conditions and Warranty info, which is 12 months for my spindle. Happily, the firm quote is a fair bit less than the estimated quote even with the chrome and grind on the taper, this is half what C&M quoted if they did a chrome and grind too. As it sits I am waiting on a quote request for the parts I need to get from Kitamura before proceeding.

  7. #46
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Washington
    Posts
    2,739
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1047
    Likes (Received)
    1076

    Default

    Funny time. I got the quote back on the parts I need from Kitamura. The biggest laugh is nearly $2k for the two drawbar springs, thankfully I don't have to get them, but the grippers and some spindle coupling parts are over $4k. Sure makes Brother look good, you get a complete spindle assembly for about the price of a complete drawbar from Kitamura. The coupling is because RMS Surgical butchered a repair which I think is why they sold the machine. Much of the fun of a used machine is figuring out what the previous owners did to it.

  8. Likes barbter, Garwood, cnctoolcat liked this post
  9. #47
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    MI, USA
    Posts
    778
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    59
    Likes (Received)
    294

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidScott View Post
    Funny time. I got the quote back on the parts I need from Kitamura. The biggest laugh is nearly $2k for the two drawbar springs, thankfully I don't have to get them, but the grippers and some spindle coupling parts are over $4k. Sure makes Brother look good, you get a complete spindle assembly for about the price of a complete drawbar from Kitamura. The coupling is because RMS Surgical butchered a repair which I think is why they sold the machine. Much of the fun of a used machine is figuring out what the previous owners did to it.
    I have a question. Are you calling Kitamura in Chicago? Or some other rep?

    I don't have any better "solution" for cheaper parts. Only asked because my boss called Methods about our 1998 Kitamura H400 looking for the plastic pallet change guides (pallets slide in and out on UHMW or Delrin rails).

    Rails were replaced by previous owners, and even those were toast when we got them (chips embed pretty easily).

    Parts manual didn't list them. They were shown in illustrations but there wasn't a part number. Methods took a bit of time before coming back with approximately 400$ per pair of rails (800$ total!).

    They are like 1" square UHMW, and maybe 8 feet was needed. So Ordered about 60$ worth and drilled them out for cap screws.

    Just commenting on that I'm not surprised the price was a bit shocking.

  10. #48
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Washington
    Posts
    2,739
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1047
    Likes (Received)
    1076

    Default

    I am talking with the national Kitamura headquarters but I have to get quotes and buy from my area rep. When my way lube pump died last December the quoted price through my rep was pretty close to the cheapest price I found online, that drop ships from the manufacturer Lube. The slight difference in price was easily justified by them having it in stock. All the machines I have had to get parts for in the past were a lot simpler so parts were cheaper. This machine is a couple of steps up in all respects, but damn those drawbar springs are expensive.

    When I rebuilt my way covers there were some plastic wear parts that I couldn't source, but thankfully were easy to make.

    By the way, now that I have had time to think about it comparing this to a Brother isn't fair. This is more of a tool and die mill that is really fast and not nearly as many were built, hence less economy of scale.
    Last edited by DavidScott; 09-17-2019 at 11:05 AM.


Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •