steel selection for bolts

cgmaster · Jul 30, 2020

I have a job to make some bolts. They are actually wheel studs for offroad vehicles.

I am looking at a311-1144 stressproof and 4140 steels.

I have to make these out of hex bar stock. The hex I have been able to find from my suppliers is 1018, a311-1144, 4140 and 1045.

The drawing specified grade 5 fasteners or equivalent or medium carbon steel.

Any recommendations from metallurgist would be a huge help.

Finegrain · Jul 30, 2020

I think Stressproof would be a bad choice, as it tends to crack. IOW, it is not "tough". I would want wheel studs made of something that, on taking a hit, might deform a little, but not crack clean off.

Regards.

Mike

theperfessor · Jul 30, 2020

Do you plan to heat treat these?

Milland · Jul 30, 2020

Go to the ARP website. Review what they say for materials for studs and bolts.

The Official ARP Web Site | Technical Information

If you're thread cutting, you should stop right there and no-bid. Wheel studs for off-roaders should be rolled, as you want reliability and strength for something that if it fails, leaves one stranded or worse. I'd want a high tensile material, at least 120Ksi, with good fatigue properties too. This is a function of metallurgy and heat treatment, both have to be right.

BTW, 1018 is great for mock-ups and things that look like wheel studs. Not for actual wheel studs...

cgmaster · Jul 30, 2020

They are not for high speed vehicles from my understanding about 15 to 20mph.

They have been using modified grade 5 bolts without any failures on something the size of a 4 wheeler. But using a hollow 5/8" bolt.

Phil in Montana · Jul 30, 2020

If the studs fail,
1 do you get sued?
2 will anyone get killed?
3 will you have any liability of any kind?
4 is it your truck?
If No use anything you like...Phil

cgmaster · Jul 30, 2020

Damn like I said it is on a small offroad vehicle about the size of a 4 wheeler that only goes 15 to 20mph. Not for high speed use or heavy load. I think they are about 600 lbs with 6 wheels.

I am not the manufacturer. I am going by the manufacturer's drawings. Which specifies grade 5 or equivalent or med carbon steel.

So no I don't think I could get sued.

I can single point or thread form them. It is not called and the manufacturer said they do not care.

Quit over thinking.

MattiJ · Jul 30, 2020

(prehard) 4140 would be closest to Grade 5 specification. Others are not even close.

1144 wouldn't pass the elongation(stretch % before break) requirement nor sulphur content

Medium Carbon Steel Bolts in SAE J429 (Grades 2, 5 and 8) | Glaser & Associates, Inc.
Strength Requirements by Grade - Portland Bolt

Milland · Jul 30, 2020

cgmaster said:
Damn like I said it is on a small offroad vehicle about the size of a 4 wheeler that only goes 15 to 20mph. Not for high speed use or heavy load. I think they are about 600 lbs with 6 wheels.

[Snippy]

I can single point or thread form them. It is not called and the manufacturer said they do not care.

Quit over thinking.

Well, you're all set, do whatever the hell you want. Why bother asking us?

cgmaster · Jul 30, 2020

Milland said:
Well, you're all set, do whatever the hell you want. Why bother asking us?

Probably because I was asking about which grade would be best. I didn't ask about why I shouldn't do the job. If you don't have an answer don't bother replying.

I'm trying to help them out by getting the right material and not waste a few thousand parts because other shops are just quoting with everything from 1018 to unknown steel.

Orange Vise · Jul 30, 2020

If it's possible to start from round bar and mill the hex after, etd150 would be a great choice.

Otherwise, both name brand Stressproof and 4140HT would probably work for your application as described.

Avoid any sort of annealed material as they'll require sending them out for heat treating, which have lot minimums.

atex57 · Jul 30, 2020

cgmaster said:
Probably because I was asking about which grade would be best. I didn't ask about why I shouldn't do the job. If you don't have an answer don't bother replying.

I'm trying to help them out by getting the right material and not waste a few thousand parts because other shops are just quoting with everything from 1018 to unknown steel.

None of the steels you listed make the grade 5 specs. People tell you that and you get pissy?? HT 4140 or 1045 will make it but not annealed. Did you even look up the specs?

Ed.

DanielG · Jul 30, 2020

I'd look at B7. It's a specific heat-treat of 4140 that is commonly used for bolts and studs that is slightly stronger than Grade 5, but has a higher minimum elongation. It is available off the shelf in a variety of diameters and turns quite well.

EmGo · Jul 30, 2020

Okay, while we're throwing useless advice out there, I'd go with 17-4. Comes in hex, gives you an advertising advantage and doesn't rust in an off-road environment.

DanielG · Jul 30, 2020

EmanuelGoldstein said:
Okay, while we're throwing useless advice out there, I'd go with 17-4. Comes in hex, gives you an advertising advantage and doesn't rust in an off-road environment.

I'd be worried about galling. Living in Maine where everything rusts, I really want lug nuts made out of cold-drawn Nitronic 60.

MattiJ · Jul 31, 2020

Orange Vise said:
If it's possible to start from round bar and mill the hex after, etd150 would be a great choice.

Otherwise, both name brand Stressproof and 4140HT would probably work for your application as described.

Avoid any sort of annealed material as they'll require sending them out for heat treating, which have lot minimums.

Could be ok for OP's purposes but..
I'd be wary of the easy to machine versions like stressproof and ETD150. Downside of easy machinability is reduced fatigue life and reduced toughness(ductility, elongation before break)
There is some exceptions like Ovako M-steel process that gives you somewhat improved machinability and better fatigue life at the same time. But as far as I know Ovako steels are pretty much non-existing in US.

Guest · Jul 31, 2020

If you must use hex, 4140 is pricey and often has supply shortages depending on size. I have been making the same bolts over and over for a customer for a dozen years. Back a dozen years ago 4140 hex was maybe 10-20% more expensive per pound than round, last I checked it was 4x and climbing and that was a couple years ago. I have been making those bolts out of round and milling the heads for a good half dozen years now.

cgmaster · Jul 31, 2020

Dualkit said:
If you must use hex, 4140 is pricey and often has supply shortages depending on size. I have been making the same bolts over and over for a customer for a dozen years. Back a dozen years ago 4140 hex was maybe 10-20% more expensive per pound than round, last I checked it was 4x and climbing and that was a couple years ago. I have been making those bolts out of round and milling the heads for a good half dozen years now.

I have considered making these out of round. Im trying to keep cost down for them. I do make some other bolts from 4140 which I have to mill the heads. I was trying to avoid heat treating them afterwards.

Hardplates · Jul 31, 2020

Personally I would make the customer spec the material, not the properties. If they won't then I would label and bill them as "for mock-up purposes only, not a load bearing component"

Guest · Jul 31, 2020

cgmaster said:
I have considered making these out of round. Im trying to keep cost down for them. I do make some other bolts from 4140 which I have to mill the heads. I was trying to avoid heat treating them afterwards.

4140 Prehard should fall right in grade 5 range, I would think. The stuff I have gotten locally specs between 28-32 Rockwell. Cuts just as well as 4140 Ann for me. Like I said if you trying to keep costs down forget about 4140 hex. Would be curious to know what the hell happened. I can't even get it locally anymore at any price.

steel selection for bolts

Which steel to use for fasteners (wheel studs on offroad vehicles)

a311 stressproof Lasalle Niagara

4140

1018

1045

Cast Iron

Diamond

Cast Iron

Diamond

Cast Iron

Stainless

Cast Iron

Titanium

Diamond

Cast Iron

Titanium

Stainless

Stainless

Diamond

Stainless

Titanium

Guest

Guest

Cast Iron

Stainless

Guest

Guest

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