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Sub Spindle Chucker

G00 Proto

Hot Rolled
Joined
Feb 18, 2013
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Dirkdirkistan, ID
I'm designing a new product that would run very nicely on a simple two axis barfed 5C lathe with a sub-spindle. Small diameter, nothing too tricky. Ideally I could find something like the Haas Chucker with a sub-spindle. I don't need live tooling, and only need 5 tools total. The business model works better with three identical, reasonably inexpensive machines, rather than one super fast machine.

Anyone seen anything like this?

PS When you tell your wife that you are looking at a barfeeder machine, she'll look at you funny. Eventually you'll figure out that she thinks you're say "Barf Eater" instead of "Bar Feeder".
 
I can't speak for the brand, but always had a sales guy pressing Ganesh or something like that.
I Remebering right they had smaller machines like that.
 
.....run very nicely on a simple two axis barfed 5C lathe with a sub-spindle......

I think you'll find that a sub-spindle lathe will be 3 axes. The sub is typically Z2 so it can travel up to the main and collect the part. Some controls will allow superimposed work then. Works well for drilling on the main and sub at the same time.
 
What are you thinking as “reasonably inexpensive” and what size stock are you looking at? I think 5C goes up to 1”??
 
Your best bet would be to call up the folks at CNC New and ask if they have a line on anyone who has a GTS FX they're looking to move. Here is a link to one they sold with some pictures so you can see what they look like: GTS-FX Gang Tool Sub-Spindle Lathe | CNC New

Other than them, maybe Cubic would have a model that would work.

Did Wasino bring in any subspindle lathes? Not sure on them.
 
I havent seen a small chucker style lathe with a sub spindle, the GT lathe mentioned above is pretty cool.
Gt is a knock off of Omniturn. I got omni turns. I have heard good and bad about them just like everything else.
There is a company that makes add-ons for omniturn, they used to be part of omniturn as well. They have modified omniturns to do some pretty amazing things robots parts flippers. They may do sub spindles as well.

Richlin Machinery, Inc. 40 Allen Blvd. Farmingdale, NY 11735
T: (631) 694-9400 | F: (631) 694-9415 | [email protected]

OmniTurn CNC Lathes, Gang Tooling, Replacement Parts, Left hand turning tool

Another option is get a old citizen with a sub spindle, you can get them pretty reasonable, of course this depends on the size of the parts and what you have to do on the sub spindle.
Also some older Miyanos had subs

a gang tooling chucker with a sub would be pretty cool
 
Miyano used to make just the machine you are thinking about. It was called the BNC34S. They no longer show it on their website so probably out of production.
 
What are you thinking as “reasonably inexpensive” and what size stock are you looking at? I think 5C goes up to 1”??

I’m not sure yet, it seems like a reasonably simple entry level Swiss is about $100-$150. That would probably work with my business model; however, if I could find a machine for half that, the business model would work better with two machines and decrease change over for different skus; a third that price and I would scale to 3 machines. I have always preferred to have multiple less expensive machines than one super duper machine. (Redundancies for breakdowns and less downtime due to change over... and laziness on my part).
 
used citizens C K and M models with sub spindle tooling barfeed and up to 20mm around 25-35k. the support is fantastic from citizen on older machines .
took a quick peak at ebay.
also a place in colorado called automatics.com ( I think thats the name) sells tons of used machines screw machines mainly and tooling for them.
 
I'm designing a new product that would run very nicely on a simple two axis barfed 5C lathe with a sub-spindle. Small diameter, nothing too tricky. Ideally I could find something like the Haas Chucker with a sub-spindle. I don't need live tooling, and only need 5 tools total. The business model works better with three identical, reasonably inexpensive machines, rather than one super fast machine.

Anyone seen anything like this?

PS When you tell your wife that you are looking at a barfeeder machine, she'll look at you funny. Eventually you'll figure out that she thinks you're say "Barf Eater" instead of "Bar Feeder".

Terminology is a bit off.

Sub-spindle is opposite of chucker.
Chucker typically means no tailstock.
(Chucked only type parts)

I believe the term that you mean is Fixed Headstock.

I would be very leary of buying a sub-spindle lathe w/o live toys.
Resale and use beyond this project would be highly limited.

Make sure that you are saving real $ by not getting the other.


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Think Snow Eh!
Ox
 
Miyano used to make just the machine you are thinking about. It was called the BNC34S. They no longer show it on their website so probably out of production.

I think the C had no live tools where our D does? Maybe they dont want to make cheaper machines any longer?

 
From what I can tell there aren't many out there that have an "inexpensive" sub-spindle machine. However, I do know that competitively speaking CNC New has some pretty interesting stuff for the price. They have an interesting dual-spindle where both headstocks move in and out and act as the Z-Axis rather than moving on the table. Here is the link: GT-DS2X Hybrid Swiss 10-Axis Gang Tool Lathe with 2" Spindle Bore, A2-5 Spindle Mount | CNC New
Their sales guy Kyle is pretty active and I think he runs their Instagram account as well.
 
From what I can tell there aren't many out there that have an "inexpensive" sub-spindle machine. However, I do know that competitively speaking CNC New has some pretty interesting stuff for the price. They have an interesting dual-spindle where both headstocks move in and out and act as the Z-Axis rather than moving on the table. Here is the link: GT-DS2X Hybrid Swiss 10-Axis Gang Tool Lathe with 2" Spindle Bore, A2-5 Spindle Mount | CNC New
Their sales guy Kyle is pretty active and I think he runs their Instagram account as well.



Ok, Kyle, who is really, really bad at online marketing for CNCNew and damaging their reputation on this board by assuming we're all too stupid to know that he's Kyle, posting links to his employer...
 
Ok, Kyle, who is really, really bad at online marketing for CNCNew and damaging their reputation on this board by assuming we're all too stupid to know that he's Kyle, posting links to his employer...

Come on TMP... that's a pretty big jump to think that someone with a brand new account with the screen name of KNDMACHINE_DUDE that throws down a link for an obscure machine tool company in California could possibly be someone named Kyle Dickerson from CNCNEW in California :) After all, he covered his tracks by referring to himself in the third person.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/kyle-dickerson-17257b172/

PS We don't mind sales people and engineers from machine tool companies coming on here and giving their opinion and passing on knowledge. Just be up front about it. So please make a new screen name and introduce yourself. Be helpful and honest, and I can virtually guarantee you will have a very good chance of selling some machines. Do real well and have good, reliable machines to back it up and before too long, you'll have a CNCNEW fan club and sell many, many machines.
 
From what I can tell there aren't many out there that have an "inexpensive" sub-spindle machine. However, I do know that competitively speaking CNC New has some pretty interesting stuff for the price. They have an interesting dual-spindle where both headstocks move in and out and act as the Z-Axis rather than moving on the table. Here is the link: GT-DS2X Hybrid Swiss 10-Axis Gang Tool Lathe with 2" Spindle Bore, A2-5 Spindle Mount | CNC New
Their sales guy Kyle is pretty active and I think he runs their Instagram account as well.
this is what got you clowns in a bad light back when you all 1st started trying to compete with omniturn, pretending to be someone who your not.
Aside from you identifying with a 3rd person, Who are we to judge if your male female or other ;)

your machine pictured is kinda useless. as it wont grab a part from one spindle to the other spindle to do the opposite operation. Theres just not enough room in the picture.
a sliding spindle on a NON Sliding stock machine is useless and is not anywhere close to being rigid. I mean whats the point of it? other than if your a siameas twin., you can do the exact same operations with 2 fixed spindles on opposite ends and be rigid. then your also limited to the types of barfeeds. cant use Hydrulic or air ones in 6-12 unless there the made for swiss style machines. which your machine isnt even close to a swiss style machine.
 
used citizens C K and M models with sub spindle tooling barfeed and up to 20mm around 25-35k. the support is fantastic from citizen on older machines .
took a quick peak at ebay.
also a place in colorado called automatics.com ( I think thats the name) sells tons of used machines screw machines mainly and tooling for them.

I was thinking along these lines too, for myself. Don't you need to use centerless ground stock with these bushing machines though? I spoke with a guy from universal automatics and he said some newer models have a conformable bushing (maybe the wrong wording) and some of the newer ones use collets but I think new = big bucks.
 
I was thinking along these lines too, for myself. Don't you need to use centerless ground stock with these bushing machines though? I spoke with a guy from universal automatics and he said some newer models have a conformable bushing (maybe the wrong wording) and some of the newer ones use collets but I think new = big bucks.

Centerless works best but not necc. in rotaing syncronized bushing assemblies. we run bar stock all the time thats not centerless ground. we also run centerless ground stock.
Most materials are round and true enough in the smaller dias like cold finish stuff. what you have to watch for mainly on steels is dia changes. we mic all out stock but mostly run stainless all types and inco and the bars repeat extreamly well. on our small hex stock in some alloys we have to check sizes on the bars in 4-8 places and all bars because it does vary especially 416.
I have an older citizen , Ive heard that type of bushing mentioned before I haven't seen where to get them yet or even if they would have them for my type of bushings.
I been wanting to try delrin inserts in a modified bushing just to see if it would work as I have a synchronized rotating bushing assembly so it rotates and wouldn't screw up the material. I dont think they would work on a fixed bushing assembly but a synchronized rotating one should be a problem.
 
I don't have a comp bushing, but it was the only option that I think my Tornos doesn't have. (swell)
I think it would be a VERY good option to get if I was spec'ing a new machine!
I would like to think that it would solve a whole lot more issues than it would cost.

???

You can get aftermarket ones for $20K USF from DUNNER SA - Swiss made tooling since 1935

I seen them ( one chick) at IMTS several years ago and was VERY impressed!

She was telling me that they use the same type collet as the new style Micro-centric, or Hardinge, or .... use.
You know - those rubber jobbies with +0 -.040" capacity????

She said that they had one customer that was starting with hot rolled, and turning it to clean it up.
Pulling it back in and - I think in this case - I think she said that they were actually clamping on it (like a collet) and the other turret with Z - came and finished it for true round and size, and ...

I'm sure that it could have just been pulled back in and ran back through (auto size adj - remember?) with very similar outcome tho.

One catch is that you want to unclamp before running Z+ or you could get into trouble.


--------------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox
 
I'm going to add my vote for the Miyano BNC-34S. I have one with an FMB bar loader, and it's a great machine. It's the first thing I thought of when I read your description of what you needed. 34 mm capacity, six station turret, sub-spindle, bullet-proof. Plus, they are very common, so finding three of them shouldn't be a problem.

Someone mentioned Wasino, and yes, there are sub-spindle Wasinos out there. I actually have one for sale in the classified section. I wouldn't recommend it for the OP, though, as they are a bit rare, and the chance of finding two more is pretty low.

Also, if the part to be made doesn't require Swiss, I would stay with a fixed headstock lathe. I think the learning curve and complication would be an unnecessary setback for a simple part.
 








 
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