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    Default Suggest smaller shoulder mill - Speedio

    Can anyone suggest a good smaller shoulder mill?

    I'm looking at this OSG phoenix 1" OD 3 flute

    And putting it on an M12 Maritool threaded holder

    Not for hogging, just getting features with a shoulder. I run a Mitsu WSX445 which is great, but 45 degrees.

    Comments on these threaded body cutters or brands of them? I haven't used one before. The OSG one is inserted so I imagine it would last a long time. Thanks

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    Just curious why an inserted tool like this instead of a larger stubby endmill. Since this is just finishing, I don't see why a stubby 3/4" or even 1" endmill wouldn't work, and maybe better than inserted. Sharper, more rigid than that M12 threaded piece.

    Regards.

    Mike

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    Sandvik Coromill 316.
    CoroMill(R) 316

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    Quote Originally Posted by Finegrain View Post
    Just curious why an inserted tool like this instead of a larger stubby endmill. Since this is just finishing, I don't see why a stubby 3/4" or even 1" endmill wouldn't work, and maybe better than inserted. Sharper, more rigid than that M12 threaded piece.

    Regards.

    Mike
    Cost man, cost. You toast a 3/4 or 1" carbide end mill and a couple of your kids won't eat for a week. You toast an insert and you buy only one six pack instead of two.

    Figuratively...

    Dave

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    Quote Originally Posted by 13engines View Post
    Cost man, cost. You toast a 3/4 or 1" carbide end mill and a couple of your kids won't eat for a week. You toast an insert and you buy only one six pack instead of two.
    OK, fair enough.

    Do verify that whatever shoulder mill you get makes an accurate 90* wall. The last one I tried, awhile ago, was a bit off of 90*, enough to have to make another pass with an endmill anyway to get the walls right.

    Regards.

    Mike

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    Quote Originally Posted by 13engines View Post
    Cost man, cost. You toast a 3/4 or 1" carbide end mill and a couple of your kids won't eat for a week. You toast an insert and you buy only one six pack instead of two.

    Figuratively...

    Dave
    Depends on how the insert fails. Ive toasted many inserts that take out the whole body. Especially the smaller indexable tooling. I've 100% given up on indexable endmills 3/4 and under, except the screw in type.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Finegrain View Post
    Just curious why an inserted tool like this instead of a larger stubby endmill. Since this is just finishing, I don't see why a stubby 3/4" or even 1" endmill wouldn't work, and maybe better than inserted. Sharper, more rigid than that M12 threaded piece.
    Seems a fair option. I hadn't looked down that path as I figured the holder would not be very stubby. If Maritool made stubby two ended 3 flute end mills, I'd be more inclined 3/4" in a side lock maybe. with 3/4" LOC, that would be about 3" gauge length. The OSG threaded in would be 2.375"

    I suppose I could try this one and see how it goes. 4F double ended

    I have heard the threaded cutters don't fail nicely, but I think that was when using extensions which I'm not going to use.

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    Double ended end mills are nice but have issues. Sure you save money on carbide. But you get more rejects after grinding. Handling a double ended end mill has a lot of difficulties. Very very fragile. Then if you want it coated the coater charges you a premium. Again because of the extra care needed in handling. Also you get a few more rejects in this operation, chipping. Then as a last issue is that most double ended coated end mills will not fit in my endmill holders. I make then to tight as it is and the added PVD thickness makes the shank too big.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 13engines View Post
    Cost man, cost. You toast a 3/4 or 1" carbide end mill and a couple of your kids won't eat for a week. You toast an insert and you buy only one six pack instead of two.

    Figuratively...

    Dave

    I went down that same road of trying to keep square shoulders with indexables as a less expensive alternative to big expensive endmills.

    I found HSM and then a fresh tool to clean walls beats indexables. Indexables only cut so deep and while yes a worn/chipped, crunched insert can be changed on the cheap...sometimes the holder takes a beating when an inserts lets loose and then its not so cheap anymore...I have a draw full of bad bodies to prove my point.

    Its amazing how long a 3/8 endmill can live taking 7/8" DOC's at 30-40 IPM...axial cuts may only be .06-.07 but the material peels right off, great finishes, good sizes, no pounding...smooth cuts allow for lackluster holding.

    IF I needed perfect sides and base...a larger finishing endmill just lasts almost forever.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fmari --MariTool- View Post
    Double ended end mills are nice but have issues.

    ... last issue is that most double ended coated end mills will not fit in my endmill holders. I make then to tight as it is and the added PVD thickness makes the shank too big.
    I just like the short LOC on the double ended ones. I'd be fine if they only had one end. It's nice to have them short when you don't need a long cut.

    Thanks on the last point. I did read that here recently and should have remembered.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mtndew View Post
    Sandvik Coromill 316.
    CoroMill(R) 316
    Coromill 316 is a really nice range, but they are about the most expensive of the solid carbide screw ons.

    I am using a lot of Tungaloy's TungMeister recently. I think they are a rebrand of (or at least the same interface as) Iscar's multimaster, but a kind of relaunch with more shank and cutting end options.

    Also Horn's System DG, which have some really sweet cutting high feeds.

    All of these tools would be a really good fit in a Speedio in terms of performance and convenience, maybe not so much in terms of cost...

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    1" dia end mill with 2.5 to 3" of flute about $300. and most people get them resharpened. cost to resharpen ? not sure i doubt it be over $100. probably much less. if not badly worn most just get end resharpened which is cheaper. obviously if you dont need flutes that long use a smaller dia mill thats cheaper
    .
    inserts are ok but they can vary cause of dirt or damage and get runout issues and not perfectly 90 degree issues. inserts vary in size, often bigger size and more expensive, used where you need the bigger size or are roughing and thicker inserts can take more feed often 200% more
    .
    many inserts not perfect straight, notice .001" tip bulge picture. this i believe helps with getting better finish often a mirror like finish. getting consistent mirror like finish not easy, obviously if inserts dull you stop getting the mirror finish, also rpm required to get mirror finish some cnc cannot go that fast
    .
    inserts very much need to be made for material being machined. that is if wrong inserts they can work badly
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails tungalloyinsert.jpg   shinyhorzhead_cropped.jpg  

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    Indexable will always have more error than solid carbide. Always. Too many variables and tolerance stack up.

    Yea for a 1" 4 flute with 3" loc you are talking $250.00

    1.00 dia 4 flute sqr TIALN carbide finisher 3.00 loc MariTool

    But for BT30 machines I would go with a 5/8 dia 4 flute with 2.25 loc for $80.00

    .625 dia 4 flute sqr TIALN carbide finisher 2.25 loc MariTool

    Or a 6 flute 5/8 with 1.625 loc for $74

    .625 x 1.625 x 3.5 TiAlN Coated 6 Flute Finisher - Made in USA MariTool

    These will go into our supper short 5/8 BT30 endmill holders. You will have a great side wall finish and if just used for finishing will last a long time.

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    Frank,
    I'm digging the 5/8 toolholder, nice and short. Do you know how deep the shank goes into it (CAD says 1.874")? I'm just wondering if the 3.5" OAL on them would need to get lopped off to maximize stubbiness.

    Also look good (doing more AL than steel):

    3 flute single end TiCN finisher 5/8 dia x 1.25 loc MariTool

    5/8 3 Flute Carbide End Mill SE 38 Deg Helix 1.625 LOC MariTool

    5/8 3 Flute Carbide Finisher End Mill SE 45 Deg Helix 1.5 LOC - MirrorLine MariTool (extra shiny Tom!)

    another https://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/32152407

    All these would be about 1/3 the OSG option which I think would be 600ish.

    Edit: 3" OAL with .750 LOC in the 5/8 holder looks pretty good

    stubby625.jpg


    Thanks

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    Yes socket depth is 1.9". Yea if you need nice and short you can cut some of the shank off and put a flat exactly where you need it.

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    I love the Seco Turbo mills. I run 2-3 flute in 3/4" and 1" and then 5-7 flute in 2". 0.433" tall insert in the "12" series with two edges and a wide range of relatively inexpensive insert options for a wide range of materials.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Finsta View Post
    I love the Seco Turbo mills. I run 2-3 flute in 3/4" and 1" and then 5-7 flute in 2". 0.433" tall insert in the "12" series with two edges and a wide range of relatively inexpensive insert options for a wide range of materials.
    Like this one I suppose: R217.69-1225.RE-12-3AN | Secotools.com

    about 1/4" shorter than the OSG

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    Cosmo,
    I'm curious about the application for a large diameter stubby mill. I know your finishing walls. Is this for finishing
    Hard materials?. I typically only use large diameter for long reach applications.

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    I have a 3/8 x 1.25 LOC finisher always in the carousel which is my go to, but for bottom finishing and shelves, it doesn't seem ideal. For example, this part is about 4" long finishing the shelf with the 3/8" tool. I could zip around it in a couple passes with .75" or 1". I might have to go for the .625" option. I'm not running high volumes, so just would be nice to have around thing.

    example.jpg

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    I have some pretty great experiences with the Big Kaiser FCM (Square) and FCR (Corner Radius) inserted cutters. They are Big+ short length integral holders - so a one piece affair. They are extraordinarily stable in all cutting conditions. I have one cut .2" deep doing a profile around an odd shaped part, maxing out at about .5" WOC. She eats this cut at 400IPM in series production with no issues. Surface finish is good enough that bead blasting brings it right into Class A status.

    It has quickly become my favorite indexed cutter. It has a wide variety of insert grades available, but the aluminum grade comes in that nice rainbow colored uicorn blood coating, so they last forever. Best part? Misumi sells them for $250 which is a smokin' deal, especially given that you don't need to also buy a $150 holder.

    Full Cut Mill (FCR Type Standard) | DAISHOWASEIKI | MISUMI USA

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