Suggestions for VMCs or Drill/Tap Machines that fit under a standard garage door.

Hey everyone, I'm looking for suggestions for a smaller package machine that would work well in a residential garage. No Tormach or other things like that. I currently have a 1989 Drill/Tap/Mill machine (Toyo Seiki) similar to a Brother. It works ok for what I want, but I have semi-limited space and plan on replacing it in the near future. There are already a few machines I am considering such as a Brother s2B or a Robodrill (seriously confused by their models and capabilities). I would be able to pay 20-25K cash and have considering stretching/financing to possibly get something new. Ideal machine would probably be something like a Brother S700X1, but not sure I can justify the price tag at this point. I'm mainly looking for options that would be worth considering that I'm not aware of or specific models to look for. I believe the door is 84" max and it would have to fit under that either whole or in pieces. Once inside ceiling height isn't to much of an issue as the peaked roof should be tall enough as long as I can position the Z between joists.

I've read a bunch of threads and seen some suggestions. I've looked at Haas Mini Mills, they just seem more than I really want to spend by the time I add the features I'd want, although financing a portion is an option. My current mill is 6k RPM, 12 tools and 7.5HP. Obviously faster and more tools is better, but can also manage. My biggest complaints with my current machine is that may end up having more issues than I'm willing to invest in (as far as age and mechanicals), it doesn't 3D surface or have the ability to drip feed. It uses a Fanuc O-M control.

I already have parts/items I make (usually smaller stuff, but a little more table real estate is never bad). I also have a regular full time job. Tried sharing a shop space and that didn't work even though it could have been ideal. I live in Orange County, so land is at a premium, along with rent for shops or nixing building a shop or something like that. That being said, my garage is already set up. I have thick concrete that I had custom done when we moved in. I have a 100A sub panel in the garage that runs a 15hp RPC, along with the original 20A circuit that originally came in. I'm not opposed to digging into the budget and setting up a 20HP Phase Perfect if need be. I have vises, measuring equipment, auxiliary equipment and pretty much anything else I need to support it. Looking for suggestions to replace the machine I have now and looking for specific machines to keep an eye out for and possibly reasonable prices I should expect to pay.

you can get a fadal under a standard garage door header,
just have to run the z axis down and remove the servo
I moved a VMC40 into my garage then moved it out when I sold it
VMC15 would be a similar move

72bwhite said:

you can get a fadal under a standard garage door header,
just have to run the z axis down and remove the servo
I moved a VMC40 into my garage then moved it out when I sold it
VMC15 would be a similar move

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Good to know. I've been curious if a 15 or 4020 would fit.

kazlx said:

Good to know. I've been curious if a 15 or 4020 would fit.

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Hard to run on a phase converter.

2outof3 said:

Hard to run on a phase converter.

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nonsense ran one for quite a while on one

72bwhite said:

nonsense ran one for quite a while on one

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You are pulling a lot of amperage off the phase convertor with a 4020 at full tilt. Did not mean that it could not be done. Just not optimal.

Just did a 3016 Fadal in my garage. Did have to take the z motor off and take the hardware off the flex channel and lay it down. I also took the garage door off the opener so I could roll it up past the header for an extra couple inches of clearance.
And just centered the z between joists.

I had two Cincinnati mills in the garage. less than seven feet tall after removing the Z axis servo, and a resistor box, laying the cable carrier over sideways.
Then rolled them in, on 1/2 inch diameter rods..
Had about .25" clearance....

The Arrow 1000 ( 40 X 20 inch machine) was barely bigger than the Sabre 500( 20 X 20 inch machine)

Above the machines, I framed out an access port into the attic for the cable carrier, and the spindle clearance.
There was a trap door so I could work on the top of the machine.

Both machines and the AC, and air compressor ran off the 100 amp panel, and homemade phase converter from a 30 horsepower motor.
Changed the rapids speeds in the parameters and did (something?) with the power supply for the spindle/servos.

So, yes a 40" machine can fit,One of my current Robodrill frames might fit under the door. Not going back to that though.

Tried sharing a shop space and that didn't work even though it could have been ideal.

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understatement of the year..


Brothers and Robodrills make excellent garage machines, and fit under garage doors with minimal work. But you have to be quite picky about which model, year, etc, and those desirable models tend to come up infrequently and command a bit of a premium. It's realistically why so many people go new.

The Mini-Mill has a pretty poor combination of options - 6000rpm, 10 tools, needs access on all sides, etc.. The SMM2 is a little better, but is difficult to get under a standard height garage door.

Really, the Fadal EMC is the sweet spot..

rlockwood said:

understatement of the year..


Brothers and Robodrills make excellent garage machines, and fit under garage doors with minimal work. But you have to be quite picky about which model, year, etc, and those desirable models tend to come up infrequently and command a bit of a premium. It's realistically why so many people go new.

The Mini-Mill has a pretty poor combination of options - 6000rpm, 10 tools, needs access on all sides, etc.. The SMM2 is a little better, but is difficult to get under a standard height garage door.

Really, the Fadal EMC is the sweet spot..

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Haha yea, not enough server space for that story. That's what sort of kills the MM for me. It just ends up being a good chunk of cash for basically a newer version of what I have now. I think there are quite a few better machines out there. I had an offer for something I think would fit the bill perfectly, but I don't think I can swing it for a few months until we finish some stuff on our place. Just trying to get an idea of what I should be looking for. Hard to pin down exact capabilities on certain year machines sometimes and I feel like I need to be a little more picky and get a machine that will meet all my needs since it will most likely be my only machine. Mid 2000s Brother or Robodrill are both looking like the solid choices.

kazlx said:

Haha yea, not enough server space for that story. That's what sort of kills the MM for me. It just ends up being a good chunk of cash for basically a newer version of what I have now. I think there are quite a few better machines out there. I had an offer for something I think would fit the bill perfectly, but I don't think I can swing it for a few months until we finish some stuff on our place. Just trying to get an idea of what I should be looking for. Hard to pin down exact capabilities on certain year machines sometimes and I feel like I need to be a little more picky and get a machine that will meet all my needs since it will most likely be my only machine. Mid 2000s Brother or Robodrill are both looking like the solid choices.

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Brothers- S2A and S2B are pretty control limited, you can bandaid fix most of the problems, but the s2c\s2d\s2dn all have b00 controls that are modern enough to not be an issue. Not sure on pallet changing machines, but i'm fairly sure they're all too tall to be relevant.

Robodrill's are harder, because Fanuc loves options, and they've sold many different flavors of Robodrill. I'm not sure where the sweet spot sits there, but I agree that a mid-2000's model would be fairly safe, with the risk becoming the need to shell out money to enable options, rather than having a legacy control that isn't capable.

The odd thing to me, is I don't think I've ever even seen an S2C in the wild. S2D would be ideal, but I think it's a little out of the price point at this point. Wish I could swing the one Milacron has for sale right now with the 5th.

rlockwood said:

Robodrill's are harder, because Fanuc loves options, and they've sold many different flavors of Robodrill. I'm not sure where the sweet spot sits there, but I agree that a mid-2000's model would be fairly safe, with the risk becoming the need to shell out money to enable options, rather than having a legacy control that isn't capable.

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Any 2005+ Robodrill is going to be decently equipped. I have one of those 2006 Methods special Mates, which was a machine they configured with Fanuc to be a low-cost, blowout special to boost the profile of BT30 machines as actual machining center and not just drill-taps. They basically stripped them down to minimal options, but you still get helical interpolation, Macro-B, extended work offsets, AICC look ahed (roughly 30 lines, but Fanuc never specs that), and Alpha series drives/encoders. The point being- anything built 2005+ that isn't a Mate is going to be equipped even better than this base, and the base is pretty functional.

gkoenig said:

Any 2005+ Robodrill is going to be decently equipped. I have one of those 2006 Methods special Mates, which was a machine they configured with Fanuc to be a low-cost, blowout special to boost the profile of BT30 machines as actual machining center and not just drill-taps. They basically stripped them down to minimal options, but you still get helical interpolation, Macro-B, extended work offsets, AICC look ahed (roughly 30 lines, but Fanuc never specs that), and Alpha series drives/encoders. The point being- anything built 2005+ that isn't a Mate is going to be equipped even better than this base, and the base is pretty functional.

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Yeah- I never really got a sense for how many pre-2005 models are worth pursuing.. Lots of 1998-2002 era machines with windows, enough that I can't help but figure they're available for a reason.

Awesome. That’s the kind of info I was looking for. It seems to be around 2004-5 was a good start. My current machine is a BT30, so being able to keep all my holders would be a plus, even though it’s not a deal breaker.

Really looking for helical, being able to threadmill, at least 7500ish spindle (even though 10k or more would be ideal), and a few more tools. Decent size table would be good too. I have two Kurt DX6 vises, but would add a third or possibly a 4th axis.

I don’t plan on making anything huge, but extra real estate is never a bad thing. Just looking for as versatile as I get get with a semi reasonable budget for a single machine.

A truly determined carpenter might do this:

Assuming the trusses rest on the garage door header, use timber screws to attach (on edge) a half dozen 2x6s spanning the opening, near the end of the trusses.

Remove the header, etc.


The key to this are the timber screws.

kazlx said:

Really looking for helical, being able to threadmill, at least 7500ish spindle (even though 10k or more would be ideal), and a few more tools. Decent size table would be good too. I have two Kurt DX6 vises, but would add a third or possibly a 4th axis.

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Yea, most any of the 2005+ Robodrills you see will meet all your requirements. You can fit 2 6" vises on the table, though it will be a tight fit with 16" of X travel. One nice thing about the Robodrill (one I wish Brother did) is that the table is extended about 4" off the right side so you can fit a 4th axis without eating much into the machining cube and without having to build a sub plate. If you do want to run a 2 vise + 4th config, I would highly recommend some sort of sub plate or quick change setup so you can yank one or both vises off to get more access to the 4th.

Also- absolutely get a tool setter for this thing. You can get a simple + reliable one off eBay and wire it up (the Robodrill are pre-wired for full probing and the manual walks you through everything pretty well). These are *not* fun machines to work in from an ergonomic perspective (the table is low, and the spindle is deep in the machine, offset to the left of the door opening).

gkoenig said:

Yea, most any of the 2005+ Robodrills you see will meet all your requirements. You can fit 2 6" vises on the table, though it will be a tight fit with 16" of X travel. One nice thing about the Robodrill (one I wish Brother did) is that the table is extended about 4" off the right side so you can fit a 4th axis without eating much into the machining cube and without having to build a sub plate. If you do want to run a 2 vise + 4th config, I would highly recommend some sort of sub plate or quick change setup so you can yank one or both vises off to get more access to the 4th.

Also- absolutely get a tool setter for this thing. You can get a simple + reliable one off eBay and wire it up (the Robodrill are pre-wired for full probing and the manual walks you through everything pretty well). These are *not* fun machines to work in from an ergonomic perspective (the table is low, and the spindle is deep in the machine, offset to the left of the door opening).

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Thank you. This is great info. I have two vises on my table now, with almost zero room to spare, but it works fine. It's tight when getting a lead in trying to face material in both vises, but works. Definitely want a machine that will take a 4th but it would be icing to find one included already, even though I know that's a long shot. I do plan on some sort of sub plate. I had to make a 5" riser to get the vises into a better position on the machine I have now. I think the machine originally had a 4th, since the spindle with a tool in doesn't even come close to reaching with a vise mounted directly to the table. I can't complain for what I have into it and it's allowed me to learn the basics, but I know it won't last forever and I'm still trying to overcome a mechanical issue with it now. Hoping to have it back in action this weekend.

Hey guys, this is great info. I'm also considering a Robodrill for my home shop. I have a dealer offering me what seems like a pretty sweet deal on a 1996 medium sized for $9k, but I'm not super familiar with Robodrills. Since it's an older one, what things should I look for as far as options and things that might not be standard or that would be major bummers?
Thanks
Jesse

Also, what does it require for post processor? Is it just generic Fanuc? Do you think a generic Din Iso or Haas 3X post will work okay? I was considering Haas minimills since I'm familiar with haas, but I've run a fanuc or 2 in my day also. The robodrill seems like a sweet little high speed work envelope, though it does require twice the power of the minimill...
Thanks