SwissMak Anyone Know What Happened - Page 16
Close
Login to Your Account
Page 16 of 18 FirstFirst ... 61415161718 LastLast
Results 301 to 320 of 346
  1. #301
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Beaverdam, Virginia
    Posts
    7,434
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    699
    Likes (Received)
    3510

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 2outof3 View Post
    They had a chance to buy a machine form a real company like Carbide 3D but instead they took a chance on an unproven product built by an unproven company. It by definition was a risk investment since it was a Kickstarter campaign. Everyone wants a Unicorn for the price of a 16 year old ex race horse.
    So you are blaming the victims? The guy has evolved into a con man, and looking for more suckers. You seem strangely offended by people who trusted GD, do you sell small hobby machines, or the like?

  2. #302
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    New Jersey
    Posts
    2,284
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    202
    Likes (Received)
    1252

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dualkit View Post
    So you are blaming the victims? The guy has evolved into a con man, and looking for more suckers. You seem strangely offended by people who trusted GD, do you sell small hobby machines, or the like?
    Kinda sorta...I believe he's involved with brother

  3. Likes 2outof3 liked this post
  4. #303
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    California
    Posts
    1,863
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1381
    Likes (Received)
    1357

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dualkit View Post
    So you are blaming the victims? The guy has evolved into a con man, and looking for more suckers. You seem strangely offended by people who trusted GD, do you sell small hobby machines, or the like?
    Nope. I sell real machines. I just don't see the people who took the risk as victims. Full disclosure; Carbide 3D is a customer of ours but with them you can go see a real facility with multiple machines, assembly area and real professionals. As a young sales guys Sherline was a customer of mine.

    I just don't like whiners who did not do their homework and demanded something that was unreasonable. The kid was just over ambitious and unrealistic. No victims here. Kickstarter is by definition a place to help start ups. Start ups fail way more than they succeed. Here is a crap design, funded by Unicorn buyers. Again, I see no victims just ignorant people. Not stupid, ignorant.

  5. Likes Radar987, Vancbiker, Garwood liked this post
  6. #304
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    California
    Posts
    1,863
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1381
    Likes (Received)
    1357

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by plastikdreams View Post
    Kinda sorta...I believe he's involved with brother
    That is a hobby machine for folks who can afford a bit more than a desk top machine.

    I also have been in about a dozen machine tool builders in my career.

  7. #305
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Colorado
    Posts
    2,886
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    3412
    Likes (Received)
    793

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dualkit View Post
    So you are blaming the victims? The guy has evolved into a con man, and looking for more suckers. You seem strangely offended by people who trusted GD, do you sell small hobby machines, or the like?
    I did warn GD to pay careful attention to not let his company turn into a Ponzi* scheme.

    (Not that he actually has to listen to any advice from anyone really).

    Maybe one day GD writes a best selling book 15 years from now "How Kickstarter Ruined My Life".

    There's an alternate reality somewhere where GD finished his degree, then went on to do a masters, worked for real engineering firms (like aerospace/ propulsion systems or hydro electric or robotic / cnc based systems) AND then later founded his own mini machine tool company.

    Sometimes you feel the pressure to get the jump on product out the door immediately (as a year's delay maybe catastrophic and the world can't wait (Not!)), and sometimes it's better to have the $ taken away from you so you can figure out much better and smarter ways of doing things. Put the time in, rather than have a knee jerk reaction to a design freeze on a not so great design in spite of customers wanting it yesterday.

    This is why I don't take peoples money until finished products are truly ready and able to "Smoke" anything else out there. We have development partners, but they get VERY good value out of us. We don't "Hit" the general public up for money.

    quote-failure-henry-ford-1-.jpg

    ^^^ The original quote may have said "Intelligently" instead of "Wisely" but Wisdom / vs Risk is a better balance than "Intelligence VS Risk as I have seen a lot of very intelligent people drive the bus off the cliff with "Tunnel" thinking because they think being "Smart" is enough.


    __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _

    * Ponzi scheme - Wikipedia

    * Bernie Madoff - Wikipedia

  8. Likes Jashley73 liked this post
  9. #306
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Beaverdam, Virginia
    Posts
    7,434
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    699
    Likes (Received)
    3510

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 2outof3 View Post
    I just don't like whiners who did not do their homework and demanded something that was unreasonable. The kid was just over ambitious and unrealistic. No victims here.
    Sometimes people who have no knowledge of a product they are thinking of purchasing do their research and still end up getting the short end of the stick. 10 years ago I moved to an area where the only available internet was from satellite. With Googling almost all the negative revues were from people going over their data limits or complaining about the signal latency effecting online video game play. Since I only needed internet for customer e-mails, ordering supplies online, and a little internet surfing I figured it would be fine. I found out it wasn't, I was on a fringe of a beam that was way over sold, many days I wished I had early 90's dial-up. It wasn't even reliable for what little needs I had. Sometimes it dropped out a dozen times a day, even during good weather.
    The internet caused me to lose business, it never got along with DOD sites so I had to throw in the towel on my previous DOD work, among other things. If I knew then what I know now I would not have moved here.

    Fast forward to today, the bad press on satellite internet is all over the place, probably even written on the bathroom walls. I have been able to flee Viasat for Verizon Wireless that improved service in my area and I am definitely spreading the word. Unfortunately I had 8 years of horrible internet.

    As for calling people victims, I would not use that word if GD was forthcoming, honest, transparent, and looking out for his backers, of which he is neither. He is feeding people lies, and trying to take advantage of them. As I said before, I do not think that was his original intent, but now, it is what it is.

  10. #307
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    California
    Posts
    1,863
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1381
    Likes (Received)
    1357

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dualkit View Post
    Sometimes people who have no knowledge of a product they are thinking of purchasing do their research and still end up getting the short end of the stick. 10 years ago I moved to an area where the only available internet was from satellite. With Googling almost all the negative revues were from people going over their data limits or complaining about the signal latency effecting online video game play. Since I only needed internet for customer e-mails, ordering supplies online, and a little internet surfing I figured it would be fine. I found out it wasn't, I was on a fringe of a beam that was way over sold, many days I wished I had early 90's dial-up. It wasn't even reliable for what little needs I had. Sometimes it dropped out a dozen times a day, even during good weather.
    The internet caused me to lose business, it never got along with DOD sites so I had to throw in the towel on my previous DOD work, among other things. If I knew then what I know now I would not have moved here.

    Fast forward to today, the bad press on satellite internet is all over the place, probably even written on the bathroom walls. I have been able to flee Viasat for Verizon Wireless that improved service in my area and I am definitely spreading the word. Unfortunately I had 8 years of horrible internet.

    As for calling people victims, I would not use that word if GD was forthcoming, honest, transparent, and looking out for his backers, of which he is neither. He is feeding people lies, and trying to take advantage of them. As I said before, I do not think that was his original intent, but now, it is what it is.
    caveat emptor

    I know people that have bought the "new" Fadal and now no support. We are talking $100k investments. In business you take risks. If you are selling a consumer product, less risk but in this instance, if people did real research, I don't know how they made that choice. Ignorant is being kind. Sorry if that sounds mean.

  11. #308
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    New Jersey
    Posts
    2,284
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    202
    Likes (Received)
    1252

    Default

    If it walks like a duck quacks like a duck and looks like a duck...it's probably a duck. Anyone who knows anything about aluminum would know, besides being pretty unreasonable, if making a machine from aluminum at least use 2024 or even 7075. But if you want a truly rigid machine one should chose aircraft grade billet aluminum, that's the best

  12. Likes 2outof3, Ox, triumph406, barbter, Mtndew liked this post
  13. #309
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    California
    Posts
    1,863
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1381
    Likes (Received)
    1357

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by plastikdreams View Post
    If it walks like a duck quacks like a duck and looks like a duck...it's probably a duck. Anyone who knows anything about aluminum would know, besides being pretty unreasonable, if making a machine from aluminum at least use 2024 or even 7075. But if you want a truly rigid machine one should chose aircraft grade billet aluminum, that's the best
    I am glad I was not drinking anything when I read this. LMAO

  14. Likes triumph406, barbter liked this post
  15. #310
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Texas
    Posts
    326
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    44
    Likes (Received)
    158

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dualkit View Post
    So you are blaming the victims? The guy has evolved into a con man, and looking for more suckers. You seem strangely offended by people who trusted GD, do you sell small hobby machines, or the like?
    Disagree.

    A con man is aware of the shit he's pulling.

    This guy has no clue. Delusion does not equal deception.

  16. #311
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Carson City, Nv. USA
    Posts
    903
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    713
    Likes (Received)
    481

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by plastikdreams View Post
    If it walks like a duck quacks like a duck and looks like a duck...it's probably a duck. Anyone who knows anything about aluminum would know, besides being pretty unreasonable, if making a machine from aluminum at least use 2024 or even 7075. But if you want a truly rigid machine one should chose aircraft grade billet aluminum, that's the best

    What is considered aircraft grade aluminum?

  17. #312
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Country
    PHILIPPINES
    Posts
    2,494
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    572
    Likes (Received)
    811

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by toolmaker96 View Post
    What is considered aircraft grade aluminum?
    I think he was being a bit facetious with that statement, hence throwing in the word "Billet".

  18. Likes Ox, TeachMePlease liked this post
  19. #313
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Hillsboro, New Hampshire
    Posts
    7,741
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1810
    Likes (Received)
    5440

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by toolmaker96 View Post
    What is considered aircraft grade aluminum?
    Take a sample of the material and throw it. If it hits the ground within five seconds it's not aircraft grade. If it keeps going passed the horizon it is AC grade.

    Hint - don't throw your only piece if not sure, you may have to buy another...

  20. Likes TeachMePlease, GENERALDISARRAY liked this post
  21. #314
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    West Unity, Ohio
    Posts
    25,414
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    5670
    Likes (Received)
    8091

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by g-coder05 View Post
    I think he was being a bit facetious with that statement, hence throwing in the word "Billet".


    That might not even have been the only feces that he was throwing either....



    --------------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox

  22. Likes g-coder05 liked this post
  23. #315
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    California
    Posts
    466
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    8
    Likes (Received)
    138

    Default

    Having founded multiple companies, at least one when I was younger than GD, I'm inclined to give GD some leaway. When one is young, inexperienced, don't know what you are doing, and OPTIMISTIC, you jump in and go for it...all good as it can on very rare occassions lead to incredible success. Add to that the kickstarter thing where you have all these totally inexperienced OPTIMISTIC investors who have virtually no information about the company and the product and you get the result you see with GD's company and product.

    My view: don't knock GD for trying and making lots of mistakes, he's already 10x a better entrepreneur now than he was when he started, and he's gotten 10x more education in running a business than he would have gotten in school.

    My second view: the kickstarter investors have gotten what they deserved, their money, their ignorance, their loss. They weren't ripped off, they just were overly optimistic with their money, and it was their money which they have the right to do what they choose with. I'm sure a few of them will be more careful with the next kickstarter campaign they look at.

    I do find it interesting that additional investors (assuming GD is being straight about this) are putting money into this venture, that could only happen if there was some kind of order backlog, IMHO.

  24. Likes 2outof3 liked this post
  25. #316
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    California
    Posts
    1,706
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1138
    Likes (Received)
    986

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by g-coder05 View Post
    Too late, I already emailed Ellison. It's financed and upside down.
    I'm glad I don't have a machine from Ellison. I'd hate to think they would give out customer information to any Tom Dick or Harry.

    I can't imagine they expected this to be reveled on the internet. I assume you know Ellison well, and I assume they expected it to be a private exchange of e-mails. Or maybe they didn't care who knows.

  26. Likes Ox, MotoX liked this post
  27. #317
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    New Jersey
    Posts
    2,284
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    202
    Likes (Received)
    1252

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by drcoelho View Post
    Having founded multiple companies, at least one when I was younger than GD, I'm inclined to give GD some leaway. When one is young, inexperienced, don't know what you are doing, and OPTIMISTIC, you jump in and go for it...all good as it can on very rare occassions lead to incredible success. Add to that the kickstarter thing where you have all these totally inexperienced OPTIMISTIC investors who have virtually no information about the company and the product and you get the result you see with GD's company and product.

    My view: don't knock GD for trying and making lots of mistakes, he's already 10x a better entrepreneur now than he was when he started, and he's gotten 10x more education in running a business than he would have gotten in school.

    My second view: the kickstarter investors have gotten what they deserved, their money, their ignorance, their loss. They weren't ripped off, they just were overly optimistic with their money, and it was their money which they have the right to do what they choose with. I'm sure a few of them will be more careful with the next kickstarter campaign they look at.

    I do find it interesting that additional investors (assuming GD is being straight about this) are putting money into this venture, that could only happen if there was some kind of order backlog, IMHO.
    Shouldn't you be working on some super tight tolerance gears now that your machines are here?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ox View Post
    That might not even have been the only feces that he was throwing either....



    --------------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox
    What I do with mine or others poo is none of anyone's business

    Quote Originally Posted by toolmaker96 View Post
    What is considered aircraft grade aluminum?
    Aluminum that came from a plane... right?

  28. #318
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    11,273
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    5414
    Likes (Received)
    3406

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by toolmaker96 View Post
    What is considered aircraft grade aluminum?
    It's one step above Military grade in quality, but half the price.

  29. #319
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Country
    PHILIPPINES
    Posts
    2,494
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    572
    Likes (Received)
    811

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by triumph406 View Post
    I'm glad I don't have a machine from Ellison. I'd hate to think they would give out customer information to any Tom Dick or Harry.

    I can't imagine they expected this to be reveled on the internet. I assume you know Ellison well, and I assume they expected it to be a private exchange of e-mails. Or maybe they didn't care who knows.
    Ellison doesn't give out financials to any Tom, Dick, or Harry. Perry put out on PM that the machine was financed (Not Ellison or Myself) when everyone started bashing him for going out and buying a new machine. I just happen to know what the deposit was because Ellison uses MFS for financing and they offer two loans/leases, a 5 year and 7 year with first time buyer program usually at 10%. Being the machine is less than a year old and knowing what the deposit was I can calculate the hit he took and that he is upside down at around 30-40%

    My conversation with Ellison was strictly letting them know I would like to be kept in the loop if/when the machine comes back.


    Careful with assumptions, you know what they say about them.

  30. #320
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    New Jersey
    Posts
    2,284
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    202
    Likes (Received)
    1252

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by g-coder05 View Post
    Ellison doesn't give out financials to any Tom, Dick, or Harry. Perry put out on PM that the machine was financed (Not Ellison or Myself) when everyone started bashing him for going out and buying a new machine. I just happen to know what the deposit was because Ellison uses MFS for financing and they offer two loans/leases, a 5 year and 7 year with first time buyer program usually at 10%. Being the machine is less than a year old and knowing what the deposit was I can calculate the hit he took and that he is upside down at around 30-40%

    My conversation with Ellison was strictly letting them know I would like to be kept in the loop if/when the machine comes back.


    Careful with assumptions, you know what they say about them.

    It rhymes with pumpkins?

  31. Likes g-coder05, Garwood liked this post

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •