SwissMak Anyone Know What Happened - Page 19
Close
Login to Your Account
Page 19 of 38 FirstFirst ... 9171819202129 ... LastLast
Results 361 to 380 of 755
  1. #361
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    California
    Posts
    217
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    115

    Default

    Dan,

    Taiwan has actually avoided the pandemic entirely (as of May) without any lock-downs or restrictions, the only difference is that people are required to wear masks on most public transportation. The government had a few local companies build dozens of mask production machines and everyone gets 9 masks per 2 weeks. I wish the US had done this. Half my family has already had the virus.

    After getting the investment last year we shut down our US shop and I sent all the pallets of SwissMak stuff to a warehouse in LA for storage. It took a bit longer than quoted to get the branch office set up in Taiwan, and finish the import license and banking setup.

    I hired the former plant manager from Hurco to be our general manager here, he seems to know every factory owner in the region and has worked in the machine tool industry his whole life.

    About the aluminum; yes, the quality is fine but the recent shutdown of China has doubled the price of most bar stock like 6061. We still had some of our largest parts made and hard anodized, but the price volatility has made us fast-track the development of the larger cast iron and hardened steel SwissMak. A lot of people wanted us to make a heavier industrial version that comes turn-key with an enclosure, so that's what we're doing.

    It's still a boxway design but the cross shaped base is 1 piece of thick walled cast iron with hardened steel boxways. 5 linear axes, 3 rotary axes with curvic couplings. We're putting all the automation options on it, plus 1 micron linear scales. The spindles have 7kW motors, the screws are larger, and everything is built heavier. It will come with touch screen control and easy to use mill-turn software. The goal of the software is to make controlling the machine super easy so parts can be programmed by a high school student with no knowledge of CNC. As of a few weeks ago, our electrical engineer has demonstrated 9 axis simultaneous control of NEMA 34 steppers. The whole-step resolution is 10 micrometers on the linear axes , or 0.0004", with micro-stepping bringing the effective positioning resolution down to a couple microns or one tenth. We're also integrating a double ATC with 20 BT30 or ISO30 holders for the 5 axis milling head. The lathe turret has 16 tools, but not all 16 can be live tools. The machine enclosure is an irregular octogon with large windows and doors on all sides, it's about 1.5 meters across the flats and has accessible handwheels for the linear axes.

    We will most likely be upgrading all of the Kickstarter machines to P4 bearings because the price of precision bearings here in Taiwan is an order of magnitude less expensive than in the US.

  2. #362
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Toledo, Ohio
    Posts
    1,719
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    40
    Likes (Received)
    610

    Default

    Man two years after the kickstarter and still nothing

  3. Likes DanASM, Dualkit liked this post
  4. #363
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Beaverdam, Virginia
    Posts
    8,308
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    969
    Likes (Received)
    4072

    Default

    Chinese aluminum is not "Fine" but you know everything. You have more pathetic excuses than grains of sand on the beach. Has anything ever been your fault?

  5. Likes DanASM liked this post
  6. #364
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    246
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    129
    Likes (Received)
    127

    Default

    How long until I can purchase one of these machines? When can I have one in my shop making chips? Just curious.

  7. #365
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    FL
    Posts
    3,440
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    11719
    Likes (Received)
    3947

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DanASM View Post
    How long until I can purchase one of these machines? When can I have one in my shop making chips? Just curious.
    February 30th. You pick the year.

  8. Likes digger doug, as9100d, DanASM, Garwood, Dualkit and 3 others liked this post
  9. #366
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    17,807
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by m98custom1212 View Post
    Man two years after the kickstarter and still nothing
    How much did you donate ?

  10. Likes DanASM liked this post
  11. #367
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Colorado
    Posts
    3,311
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    3793
    Likes (Received)
    941

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Generic Default View Post
    Dan,

    Taiwan has actually avoided the pandemic entirely (as of May) without any lock-downs or restrictions, the only difference is that people are required to wear masks on most public transportation. The government had a few local companies build dozens of mask production machines and everyone gets 9 masks per 2 weeks. I wish the US had done this. Half my family has already had the virus.

    After getting the investment last year we shut down our US shop and I sent all the pallets of SwissMak stuff to a warehouse in LA for storage. It took a bit longer than quoted to get the branch office set up in Taiwan, and finish the import license and banking setup.

    I hired the former plant manager from Hurco to be our general manager here, he seems to know every factory owner in the region and has worked in the machine tool industry his whole life.

    About the aluminum; yes, the quality is fine but the recent shutdown of China has doubled the price of most bar stock like 6061. We still had some of our largest parts made and hard anodized, but the price volatility has made us fast-track the development of the larger cast iron and hardened steel SwissMak. A lot of people wanted us to make a heavier industrial version that comes turn-key with an enclosure, so that's what we're doing.

    It's still a boxway design but the cross shaped base is 1 piece of thick walled cast iron with hardened steel boxways. 5 linear axes, 3 rotary axes with curvic couplings. We're putting all the automation options on it, plus 1 micron linear scales. The spindles have 7kW motors, the screws are larger, and everything is built heavier. It will come with touch screen control and easy to use mill-turn software. The goal of the software is to make controlling the machine super easy so parts can be programmed by a high school student with no knowledge of CNC. As of a few weeks ago, our electrical engineer has demonstrated 9 axis simultaneous control of NEMA 34 steppers. The whole-step resolution is 10 micrometers on the linear axes , or 0.0004", with micro-stepping bringing the effective positioning resolution down to a couple microns or one tenth. We're also integrating a double ATC with 20 BT30 or ISO30 holders for the 5 axis milling head. The lathe turret has 16 tools, but not all 16 can be live tools. The machine enclosure is an irregular octogon with large windows and doors on all sides, it's about 1.5 meters across the flats and has accessible handwheels for the linear axes.

    We will most likely be upgrading all of the Kickstarter machines to P4 bearings because the price of precision bearings here in Taiwan is an order of magnitude less expensive than in the US.
    .
    .
    .
    Quote Originally Posted by Generic Default View Post
    I hired the former plant manager from Hurco to be our general manager here, he seems to know every factory owner in the region and has worked in the machine tool industry his whole life.
    Holy sh*t .^^^

    How old is he/ she (not that that makes a difference).

    Sounds like a completely different machine at a different price point ?

    Also sounds like 50X to 100X the previous investment so who else is "In" on this now ? (If you are allowed to say ?).

  12. #368
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Virginia
    Posts
    214
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    17
    Likes (Received)
    15

    Default

    So let me get this straight, you have people who have waited over 2 years (and paid) for a machine, and due to the price volatility of aluminum decided to completely redesign it and leave those people waiting? How long before you actually deliver a machine to a kickstarter member?

  13. #369
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Texas
    Posts
    542
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    126
    Likes (Received)
    149

    Default

    I'm bummed. I wanted to see a machine tool with plastic bearings.

    Maybe backers get timeshare on a new model?

  14. #370
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    FL
    Posts
    3,440
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    11719
    Likes (Received)
    3947

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CosmosK View Post
    I'm bummed. I wanted to see a machine tool with plastic bearings.

    Maybe backers get timeshare on a new model?

    Ever used a kitchenaid mixer?

    Turn it on its side, boom, Swissmak!

  15. Likes Bobw liked this post
  16. #371
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Country
    SPAIN
    Posts
    3,938
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    2296
    Likes (Received)
    1549

    Default

    7Kw motors and 1micron scales :blink:

  17. #372
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    West Unity, Ohio
    Posts
    26,234
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    6514
    Likes (Received)
    8637

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TeachMePlease View Post
    Ever used a kitchenaid mixer?

    Turn it on its side, boom, Swissmak!

    Doo you make the (custom pour) 630SS shafts for those?


    -----------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox

  18. #373
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    California
    Posts
    1,997
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1528
    Likes (Received)
    1463

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cameraman View Post
    .
    .
    .


    Holy sh*t .^^^

    How old is he/ she (not that that makes a difference).

    Sounds like a completely different machine at a different price point ?

    Also sounds like 50X to 100X the previous investment so who else is "In" on this now ? (If you are allowed to say ?).
    Sounds like putting your name on a piece of someones iron.

  19. #374
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    West Unity, Ohio
    Posts
    26,234
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    6514
    Likes (Received)
    8637

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 2outof3 View Post
    Sounds like putting your name on a piece of someones iron.
    George O. Gridley


    ---------------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox

  20. #375
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Beaverdam, Virginia
    Posts
    8,308
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    969
    Likes (Received)
    4072

    Default

    After 5 months of silence why do you re-appear? Are you looking for more suckers to believe in your sorry ass & send you more money?

  21. Likes Mike1974, SRT Mike liked this post
  22. #376
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Klamath Falls, Oregon
    Posts
    3,685
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    432
    Likes (Received)
    1022

    Default

    I was reading 7Kw motors and 1.5m on a side with NEMA34 steppers that have 0.0004 accuracy per full step and my brain exploded. I'm a quivering mess of jello now.

    But seriously, I know how big a REAL 10HP motor is, since when does a little machine like this even fit a 10HP motor?

    NEMA34 steppers???!

    Why use a NEMA34 stepper on a machine with 10HP motors?

    Even Bridgeport used bigger steppers than this on the early BOSS machines.

    Tormach went to Clearpath brushless servos, and that was them catching up to the 1980's.

    Steppers are fine for low torque applications like printers, scanners, and laser cutters. You can spin a small stepper pretty fast with reasonable voltage, it's a lot harder to do it with big steppers and the voltages required make it seem like a silly choice when proper servos take all the same hardware. Standard NEMA34 motors are not a good choice because of their voltage/resistance/inductance curves, they will have trouble accelerating large masses and achieving high speeds.

    When you start putting [email protected] out to drive a big stepper, why not just go to a closed loop servo?

    Based on your numbers, you are using 2mm pitch ballscrews with standard 200 step/rev steppers. Once you start microstepping you are going to lose a bunch of speed, and since it's open loop you're going to be very vulnerable to lost steps and "electronic backlash".

  23. #377
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    California
    Posts
    217
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    115

    Default

    Perry Harrington,

    The lead screws are 4mm pitch with 400 step/rev steppers. We can use 5mm or any pitch for that matter, the effective positioning resolution is still limited to that lower bound of 2 microns or so. I am aware that larger steppers are slow. This would not be viable on a normal VMC or any machine that has longer travels, but remember that the work envelope of this mill-turn is what fits in a 6 inch chuck, basically anything the size of a 2 liter soda bottle. If you want to turn a 6 inch cylinder, your turning tool only needs to travel 3 inches to get to the middle. Compare that to a 4020 sized VMC where you need to rapid across the whole bed and go up 25 inches to do a tool change. The short travels of the SwissMak design negate the need for fast repids. Of course there is nothing stopping us from using the ClearPath stepper killers to achieve 5x the rapid speed and save a few seconds of rapid time. The electronics we're using have 6 stepper drivers on the main board and 3 more on the expansion board; these drivers have 256 micro stepping and report missed steps as a fault, so they are more of a semi-closed loop system that gets good accuracy at the cost of speed. The linear scales are just there to give that extra level of feedback and account for backlash and temperature change. The "Electronic backlash" you mention is the real limit to our linear motion. Whole-steps are repeatable to 0.0004", but going below that makes the motion more "squishy", marking the lower bound of practical positioning resolution. Anyone who wants single micron positioning needs to buy a Yasda or Dixi. I believe sub-thousandth positioning and accuracy is more than adequate for 95% of mill-turn parts.
    Teemfan,

    The Kickstarter machines already have most of the machining done, and should show up to our factory in about a week. We couldn't get them done in the US and I did everything I could to make sure I didn't lose them, it's just that shipping things between countries is almost impossible without having the paperwork and documentation correct. It would be much easier if I could just put all 40 of the Kickstarter SwissMaks in a FedEx flat rate box and send them to Taiwan. I had to get the company set up here before I could even start the process. We're not starting from nothing, we intend to finish and ship the Kickstarter machines as soon as possible. The new machines we will be making are the ones I was talking about in the previous post.

    Also, Dualkit,

    We're not using Chinese aluminum. When I was in the US all the aluminum I bought was service center, Kaiser, ect. Here in Taiwan, they either extrude the aluminum locally or import it from Europe as bar stock. For our largest part size, they quoted making an extrusion die with a much lower material price per pound but a long lead time, versus importing the right bar size of 6061 from Austria. I figured they could buy 20 foot containers full of it from China, but she said they couldn't. China was in complete lockdown a few months ago (still in partial lockdown) and I think she said something about the Taiwan government banning Chinese aluminum bar stock due to dumping. Either way, it's not as accessible and cheap as it was when I built the prototype machines a few years ago. Most of the people on this forum were saying they wanted a heavy cast iron and steel machine, so we're getting the cast iron patterns made right now for the next generation of machines.

  24. #378
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Florida
    Posts
    4,529
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1741
    Likes (Received)
    2169

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dualkit View Post
    After 5 months of silence why do you re-appear? Are you looking for more suckers to believe in your sorry ass & send you more money?
    I was wondering the same thing. It seems the hole is so deep now just give up.

    edit. Although...

    I can't be positive with the fuzzy memory I have.... I thought the Carvesmart guy started a thread here and everyone poo poo'ed him and his 'stupid' idea and now carvesmart jaws are common on some new vises..?

  25. #379
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    New York
    Posts
    133
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    86

    Default

    Never heard of these until this popped up again. Looked at the site, left me with 3 thoughts.

    1. Looks like a tinker toy hobby shop POS not sure why anyone in industry would give a rat's ass

    2. Not sure what kind of sucker would believe they'd get all the advertised features at such a low price. Looks like a scam from a mile away.

    3. If you're trying to impress me with the accuracy of the machine don't demonstrate it with your Shars indicator.

  26. #380
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Texas
    Posts
    542
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    126
    Likes (Received)
    149

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Generic Default View Post
    I did everything I could to make sure I didn't lose them, it's just that shipping things between countries is almost impossible without having the paperwork and documentation correct. It would be much easier if I could just put all 40 of the Kickstarter SwissMaks in a FedEx flat rate box ....
    So you're saying there's a good chance your kickstarter units will be lost in transit?

    What's the retail on your new design? Got a website for it yet?


Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •