SwissMak Anyone Know What Happened - Page 29
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  1. #561
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    It's been 3 days since I msged him again and no reply.
    Must be having keyboard issues again.

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  3. #562
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    I've read your posts and I didn't think to comment but man you're right about the disgrace aspect of working with Asians.

    We had a manager here that was ok but was learning to manage people. He ended up talking poorly about some of our Pinoy workers to some people across town and long story short those workers beat the shit out of him outside of work one day and he never showed up to work again.

    I've told guys to have beef after work and keep it out of the shop so I couldn't hardly discipline anyone over it... Not that I would have anyways.

    I can't imagine talking shit about a nation's workers when you're in their country. The Pinoy and Hispanic workers I have here have to have respect above all joking and without it shit doesn't get done. Can't be talking trash about a nation's workers where you are on their land conducting business.... He should probably stop all that talk and keep It to himself.

    Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

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  5. #563
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    Quote Originally Posted by as9100d View Post
    It's been 3 days since I msged him again and no reply.

    Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
    The private message system works for the other 25,000 members, just not him.

  6. #564
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    Quote Originally Posted by drcoelho View Post
    Having founded multiple very successful startups I gotta point out that ALL entrepreneurs are by nature "optimistic" otherwise they would never start companies....I'm not entirely convinced yet that the Kickstarter sponsors are gonna get their machines, BUT I think a lot of the vitriol on this thread is way over the top. The fact that Generic Default keeps posting status means that either a) he really is trying to make this work, or b) he has hoodwinked the entire practical machinists community in the biggest troll ever, not to mention scam on kickstarter. I just don't believe the latter, too much detail.

    Many many of the biggest business successes in history almost failed, sometimes multiple times....examples: Cisco, vmWare, FedEx, Southwest Airlines....the history of what the enterpreneurs did to keep these companies from failing during early years is astounding.
    Pretty sure he keeps coming here to try to counteract the bad press. Any small amount of research about the Swissmak will turn up this thread. How a person who founded many successful start ups can stick up for Generic Default is beyond me. I am pretty sure you often had to ask "What did I (or we) do wrong and what can I (or we) do to improve?" GD has never looked in the mirror for the cause of any problems, he has always blamed others and made excuses, even excuses that were outright lies. Those are things politicians do, not successful business owners in the manufacturing sector.

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  8. #565
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    If you think about this whole situation... what happened is he got in over his head by thinking something was going to be substantially easier to do than it ended up being. He took an idea to an early prototype state and thought it was just a matter of crossing some T's and dotting some I's and voila - done. He drastically underestimated the costs and time and effort involved to get from prototype to production and cost a bunch of people tens/hundreds of thousands of $$ through his inexperience and naivete.

    And so what did he do?

    Took on a much more complicated project and is, once again, assuming that it's just a matter of solving a few simple issues to get a working product. He's doing exactly the same thing he did before. He's learned nothing. He has changed nothing. He's doubling down on the same mistakes and hubris that got him into this situation in the first place. Except now it's not just a home-brew machine, it's one relying on vendors for castings and parts, and it includes a totally new type of CAM/programming system and much more.

    In my view, this all has zero chance of success. He's one of those people who thinks they are an expert on a subject when they learn a little about it... and one of those types who is never wrong and never to blame. This is going to end very badly - wait and see.

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  10. #566
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    Anyone who has a product has had to deal with someone having a problem with it and making a big to do about it online somewhere. That negative press can be disastrous.

    When that happens there's alarm bells and you jump in with both feet and use as much tact and humility as possible to turn the potentially damaging situation into a positive.

    That hasn't happened here.

    Excuses. No apologies. No pictures of anything with substance. lofty, unrealistic claims of what is coming. Nothing tangible.

    Reads straight from the con artists play book.

    Even worse yet is this crowd is likely the most understanding group on the planet of this situation since many of us have either been here or narrowly escaped a similar situation. Perry is not embracing that, he's engaging with us like we're his potential customers, not his mentors.

  11. #567
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    Quote Originally Posted by g-coder05 View Post
    .... Most of the backers I talk to just want their money back as was promised on the Kickstarter page. But,,,there seems to be a few that are extremely pissed. You just don't ignore someone who gave you $6K investment money.
    One simple question.
    "Investment involves risk", standard that everyone with the brains god gave a rock knows. It is boiler plate.
    If it goes south and you whine like a ... who is the bad guy?
    No sympathy here for investors without a clue or not willing to take a loss which is then written off on taxes.
    If 6K is gonna break you don't put it in on a wish and a prayer. Is that so hard to understand?
    Bob

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    Quote Originally Posted by CarbideBob View Post
    One simple question.
    "Investment involves risk", standard that everyone with the brains god gave a rock knows. It is boiler plate.
    If it goes south and you whine like a ... who is the bad guy?
    No sympathy here for investors without a clue or not willing to take a loss which is then written off on taxes.
    If 6K is gonna break you don't put it in on a wish and a prayer. Is that so hard to understand?
    Bob
    Why do you keep defending this guy? Is he your grandson? It seems grandparents are a loser kids best friend. You seem to miss the simple point when things went south the guy just kept blaming others and lying. He may have started out with good intentions, but now has pretty much evolved in to a con man. No one is jumping on the guy for a start up business failure, it is how he handled it.

    I had one and I detailed it here many times. I probably lost around $500k in the end, but it came out of my pocket. Dualkit comes from selling dual alternator kits and other items I produced to the limousine industry.
    I tried to corner the market on the products I sold. The problem was I was trying to corner a market that was contracting rapidly right before the recession of 2008. The limousine building industry has never recovered as of a dozen years later.

    I figure most of the downfall was just poor timing. The other one was me having a conscience and too much hope. I was gaining share in a shrinking market. The biggest selling point were my kits were designed for easy installation, had great detailed instructions, and a warranty equal to or better than the competition, while being priced the same as lesser products.

    When income kept dwindling I kept employees too long figuring things would come back, I also figured I could have fire sales and at least break even keeping my staff of 6 employed. I hung on too long to employees to make product that ended up in the dumpster when I left California. I also gave out severance packages when laying people off I did not have to.

    That is my story and I am sticking to it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dualkit View Post
    Pretty sure he keeps coming here to try to counteract the bad press. Any small amount of research about the Swissmak will turn up this thread. How a person who founded many successful start ups can stick up for Generic Default is beyond me. I am pretty sure you often had to ask "What did I (or we) do wrong and what can I (or we) do to improve?" GD has never looked in the mirror for the cause of any problems, he has always blamed others and made excuses, even excuses that were outright lies. Those are things politicians do, not successful business owners in the manufacturing sector.
    I'm not sticking up for anyone, I'm just saying that entrepreneurs view the world as glass being half full, not half empty, and as a result often get into trouble because of their enthusiasm...sometimes it works, sometimes it does not. The most successful entrepreneurs are the ones that NEVER give up, learn from their mistakes and persevere....the jury is still out on this project. In all of my startups, the vast majority of my advisers, friends, family told me I was nuts and shouldn't pursue the idea as it wasn't going to work....that is the nature of doing startups, you are pushing the envelope pursuing ideas that most folks have discounted or not thought deeply about. It takes a person that believes without doubt in their idea, is stubborn and relentless in pursuing it, but is also flexible in their thinking to change 180 degrees if necessary to succeed.

    I have absolutely no idea about whether the OP will succeed or not, and certainly I am in no way experienced enough machinist/machine builder (none) to have a technical opinion on his ideas....I'm just pushing back at some folks who are overly critical of a guy that in my opinion is making LOTS of mistakes being a very young, very inexperienced entrepreneur...but I guarantee he's learning more about business/life/etc in the past 2 years than he would learn in 10 years in school.

    AND, YES, I myself would have handled the "public relations" much differently than he has on this site...lots of learning curve and mistakes there, and the risk of losing credibility in the market due to bad publicity.

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  15. #570
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarbideBob View Post
    One simple question.
    "Investment involves risk", standard that everyone with the brains god gave a rock knows. It is boiler plate.
    If it goes south and you whine like a ... who is the bad guy?
    No sympathy here for investors without a clue or not willing to take a loss which is then written off on taxes.
    If 6K is gonna break you don't put it in on a wish and a prayer. Is that so hard to understand?
    Bob
    No, it's not.

    But that doesn't excuse him for not keeping his promises.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CarbideBob View Post
    One simple question.
    "Investment involves risk", standard that everyone with the brains god gave a rock knows. It is boiler plate.
    If it goes south and you whine like a ... who is the bad guy?
    No sympathy here for investors without a clue or not willing to take a loss which is then written off on taxes.
    If 6K is gonna break you don't put it in on a wish and a prayer. Is that so hard to understand?
    Bob
    You are seriously blaming the customers here? I can't understand why you are going all-in to support this guy. Have you ripped customers off before and tried to justify it with "buyer beware" or something? If someone makes a promise and someone takes an action based on that promise (like spending money), how is it the fault of the victim when they get burned? There always has to be trust... whether it's me trusting you will ship an item I have paid for, or trusting that you when you tell me you're experienced in cutting tools and a certain endmill is the right one for my application. If you blame the people who put forth that trust and say they should have been more skeptical, then commerce grinds to a halt... it starts with some level of trust.

    This guy is off working on version 2 of his machine when version 1 never even got made. Not only that, he's claiming a revolution on the software side as well as the hardware side. A guy who has never built and delivered a single machine and who failed on his first go around. And you're chastising people who are questioning this. WTF? You his dad or something?

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    Quote Originally Posted by drcoelho View Post
    I'm just pushing back at some folks who are overly critical of a guy that in my opinion is making LOTS of mistakes being a very young, very inexperienced entrepreneur...but I guarantee he's learning more about business/life/etc in the past 2 years than he would learn in 10 years in school.
    It doesn't seem like he's learning much at all. He's doing exactly the same thing for round 2 as he did for round 1.... assume a task is much easier than it really is, use other people's money to fund his naive foray into a world of complexity that he doesn't understand, and make excuses and blame others when things start to go sideways. What is different from his 2nd crack at this than his first? It seems like he's doing everything he did wrong the first time, except doing it bigger.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SRT Mike View Post
    It doesn't seem like he's learning much at all. He's doing exactly the same thing for round 2 as he did for round 1.... assume a task is much easier than it really is, use other people's money to fund his naive foray into a world of complexity that he doesn't understand, and make excuses and blame others when things start to go sideways. What is different from his 2nd crack at this than his first? It seems like he's doing everything he did wrong the first time, except doing it bigger.
    There is merit to your argument, he does need to deliver something in relatively short order or he will lose credibility with all involved.

    I will tell you a story though, during my second startup, my business was 30 days from cash out and the Venture Capitalists (4 backers with many millions invested) all told the management that they were not going to further fund the company and would just let the business die...this was due to delays in initial product development (my area of responsibility, so my bad, the problem we were trying to solve was HARD HARD HARD)....anyway, we pulled a rabbit out of the hat and signed an OEM deal that put $500K cash into the bank, and within a few months the business took off like a rocket, 0-$30M in revenue in 24 months and 65 percent pre-tax profit....point being, even the "smartest" investors on the planet often get it wrong AND almost ALWAYS product development takes longer is harder and takes much more investment to complete than originally planned. SOOO, it seems to me there are a lot of arm-chair commentators on this thread that find it really easy to criticize without knowing enough to judge the real story.....

    That being said, I would recommend the OP post information with more "real progress" and less "excuses" as it'll build his credibility greater if his goal is to sell to the practical machinist community on his ideas....

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    I think the much more important and most critical question for the OP is the following:
    - what is the market for this product, e.g. how big is the market, what price point, what required features, who is the competition, etc
    - how much to manufacturer such a product, e.g. can you make a sufficient profit to justify a business taking into account the need for service, support, marketing, sales, etc

    These are basic business 101 questions. I'm wondering how well the OP has thought this through. If I were doing this, I would have developed a 60 page business plan with the business fully fleshed out including detailed manufacturing costs, etc before I would have even accepted the Kickstarter money. Now that he's got additional investors and is ramping more seriously in Taiwan I would have expected he would have had to present some kind of business plan to the investors.

    Unless it is all a "tall story".....time will tell

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    Quote Originally Posted by SRT Mike View Post
    You are seriously blaming the customers here?.... ?
    Customer, .......my mistake, I thought this was a kickstarter deal.
    Curious, did you also order a "cnc brain" on another site fully knowing it was not a working product but loving the "maybe, someday,... too good to be true"?
    Bob

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    One simple question.
    "Investment involves risk", standard that everyone with the brains god gave a rock knows. It is boiler plate.
    If it goes south and you whine like a ... who is the bad guy?
    No sympathy here for investors without a clue or not willing to take a loss which is then written off on taxes.
    If 6K is gonna break you don't put it in on a wish and a prayer. Is that so hard to understand?
    Bob
    Yes, It does involve risk and agreed this would have been a fools investment. But read the snippet I posted from his Kickstarter page. He told the backers he would give back the money in print (Before) they pledged the money. He lured investors in with the false sense of security that before they made any big decisions he would give the money back. Now he squandered through almost 200K of other people's money and doesn't have the common courtesy to give weekly updates with proof.

    More and more I really don't think he's in Taiwan, I think as another OP said, He's gone into hiding. Chinese/Taiwanese don't make split second decisions, they research everything. They would have known his life's story before taking on and investing in this fiasco. And they for sure would have found this conversation. You can't mention Swissmak on Google and not get pointed here.

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    It would be very helpful to confirm whether he is in Taiwan or not....if he is, I think he should be considered "legit", if not, then I would start trending towards the "naysayers".....

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    One of his backers on Kickstarter keeps making laughable posts. Is it possible to shill your own campaigns?
    Or maybe Phillip is Generic Defaults grandmother who was the first backer.

    Phillip MickelsenSuperbacker
    12 days ago

    Thank you for the strong update!! And thank you for all your efforts- hopefully you can continue to use the machined parts you’ve already spent so much time and energy into making for the SwissMak. Did they arrive today (May 12th) as planned? Are all the aluminum pieces you’ve milled for the SwissMak and shown us in the previous updated photos still viable? I am curious, do you have a rough idea for when you hope to get the machines out for delivery? Sorry so many questions! Just excited that you are still communicating with us! Please keep us all in the loop as we are very excited for this and even a weekly update would be fantastic (even if it’s just the status quo). And of course, glad to hear that you are healthy and been able to reestablish a new headquarters!

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    Phillip MickelsenSuperbacker
    12 days ago

    Thank you for the strong update!! And thank you for all your efforts- hopefully you can continue to use the machined parts you’ve already spent so much time and energy into making for the SwissMak. Did they arrive today (May 12th) as planned? Are all the aluminum pieces you’ve milled for the SwissMak and shown us in the previous updated photos still viable? I am curious, do you have a rough idea for when you hope to get the machines out for delivery? Sorry so many questions! Just excited that you are still communicating with us! Please keep us all in the loop as we are very excited for this and even a weekly update would be fantastic (even if it’s just the status quo). And of course, glad to hear that you are healthy and been able to reestablish a new headquarters!
    Wow, you’re on to something there. Google>>>>> Phillip Mickelsen Kickstarter

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    Quote Originally Posted by g-coder05 View Post
    Wow, you’re on to something there. Google>>>>> Phillip Mickelsen Kickstarter
    I didn't bother Googling till I read your post. The guy is either a philanthropist who loves investing in products
    most likely to fail or he only exists as a shill character that Kickstarter provides to boost revenue. It is pretty strange how he raves over everything like a grandparent praising their 2 year old grandchild. If someone sent him a frozen turd in a cardboard box he would rave over it.

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