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    Not quite, those parts are what we have been making here while we wait for the Kickstarter shipment to come in. You can see a little bit of the enclosure frame on the left side too. When we get the shipment the first thing I'll do is post pictures.

    EDIT;

    KANWAY LINE COMPANY LIMITED

    The shipment is supposedly on 2021N or 20021N, this looks like it's just the cross-strait ship. I was told it would be here a while ago but more recently they gave this ship number. Whatever took it across the pacific was either the slowest slow boat in history, or it arrived in Hong Kong and was sitting there for a while in some container yard.

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    KANWAY GLOBAL cargo ship arrives in TXG/Taiwan May 25 06:30, presuming your container is on this ship you should get notice from logistics within 1-3 days after that. Do you have paperwork on this shipment? You should already (many many weeks ago) have signed paperwork and paid various fees and you should also have signed up with a Customs Broker many weeks ago to work through the process of getting the container through customs. Unless you have a full container your crates will be broken out in logistics warehouse and you'll then arrange for pickup for transport to your shop. How much of this have you done?

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    Quote Originally Posted by drcoelho View Post
    KANWAY GLOBAL cargo ship arrives in TXG/Taiwan May 25 06:30, presuming your container is on this ship you should get notice from logistics within 1-3 days after that. Do you have paperwork on this shipment? You should already (many many weeks ago) have signed paperwork and paid various fees and you should also have signed up with a Customs Broker many weeks ago to work through the process of getting the container through customs. Unless you have a full container your crates will be broken out in logistics warehouse and you'll then arrange for pickup for transport to your shop. How much of this have you done?
    We started this a long time ago as soon as we got our import license, first by meeting with a freight forwarder in Taiwan who will be our exporters, and they also have a subsidiary in LA that arranged this shipment to Taiwan from LA. Tons of paperwork at every step. All the import paperwork for actually receiving must be done in Chinese, and as first time importers they inspect every pallet. Since we will be re-exporting all these SwissMaks for the Kickstarter backers, I believe there's a provision for refunding the import duties in Taiwan.


    Also I got to look at the cross base castings a couple hours ago:
    cast-base-side2.jpg
    case-base-side1.jpg
    cast-base-mini-print.jpg
    cast-base-mini-print-2.jpg

    It's always cool seeing tiny 3d printed models turned into big metal parts. Now I just have to wait for them to temper the first 10 castings and machine them to perfection. Once we bolt on the hardened steel boxways we can start sliding stuff around and checking the rigidity and backlash of the linear motion.

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    keep regular updates with pictures coming and this whole thing may still turn positive, just don't blame upcoming problems on something, anything, say there is problem X, we're working to solve it, and you may get suggestions on how to do that

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    Pictures are worth a thousand words, very encouraging to see those new castings. Please do keep us posted, and I totally agree with the last poster. No excuses, just the facts. Most folks on this forum want to help.

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    pictures with that days Taiwanese newspaper in the background preferably

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    Quote Originally Posted by Generic Default View Post
    We started this a long time ago as soon as we got our import license, first by meeting with a freight forwarder in Taiwan who will be our exporters, and they also have a subsidiary in LA that arranged this shipment to Taiwan from LA. Tons of paperwork at every step. All the import paperwork for actually receiving must be done in Chinese, and as first time importers they inspect every pallet. Since we will be re-exporting all these SwissMaks for the Kickstarter backers, I believe there's a provision for refunding the import duties in Taiwan.


    Also I got to look at the cross base castings a couple hours ago:
    cast-base-side2.jpg
    case-base-side1.jpg
    cast-base-mini-print.jpg
    cast-base-mini-print-2.jpg

    It's always cool seeing tiny 3d printed models turned into big metal parts. Now I just have to wait for them to temper the first 10 castings and machine them to perfection. Once we bolt on the hardened steel boxways we can start sliding stuff around and checking the rigidity and backlash of the linear motion.


    IDK what's involved in the "tempering" process?

    Is this a heat treat sorta thing?
    Castings aren't s'posed to have stresses built in, but cast does move a wee bit over time and heat cycles, thus many would rather run an older block in their race car than a new crate motor - given the same spec's of course.

    Hydromat was said to cast their bases and set them outside in the Swiss weather for a year before machining on them.


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    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox

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    Quote Originally Posted by as9100d View Post
    I smoked almost 2 million of other people's money once. Does that make me a scammer?



    Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
    Did you own up to the mistakes and learn from them, or did you make excuse after excuse and tell a bunch of lies?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dualkit View Post
    Did you own up to the mistakes and learn from them, or did you make excuse after excuse and tell a bunch of lies?
    I lied a little... I told the investors we lost more than we did so they wouldn't be as pissed when I told them it was less SwissMak Anyone Know What Happened

    It did work....

    Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

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    That article is pure comedy. It reads like those infomercials that try to come across like investigative journalism. The person who wrote it had to be a friend or some one who was paid off.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dualkit View Post
    That article is pure comedy. It reads like those infomercials that try to come across like investigative journalism. The person who wrote it had to be a friend or some one who was paid off.
    It's just a student newspaper article. At that time the project held nothing but promise to most eyes.

    "Campbell is transferring out of CU Boulder’s electrical engineering program with about one year left in his degree."

    whoops (imho).

    As long is this guy is taking to produce a functioning machine, if Sherline/Tormach/maybe Haas though the design was a winner, they'd be coming out with their version.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Generic Default View Post
    ..I had to figure out the best form factor to miniaturize everything while keeping the full functionality that larger machines have. Anyone have any questions or comments about this? I can't wait to get the real, machined parts soon. We're building 10 of these cast iron SwissMaks for the first mini production run.

    Attachment 289511
    So when's power up date for the new machine #1? Power up date for KS machine #1?

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    Quote Originally Posted by CosmosK View Post
    It's just a student newspaper article. At that time the project held nothing but promise to most eyes.

    "Campbell is transferring out of CU Boulder’s electrical engineering program with about one year left in his degree."

    whoops (imho).

    As long is this guy is taking to produce a functioning machine, if Sherline/Tormach/maybe Haas though the design was a winner, they'd be coming out with their version.

    I don't think there's even the slightest bit of willingness within machine tool companies to try significantly different designs. The whole premise of the SwissMak project is to miniaturize the most capable and versatile CNC design (mill turn) and reduce the cost to the point where it is affordable for hobbyists and small businesses. It's following in the footsteps of the open source 3d printer projects. FDM printers used to cost over $20,000. Now you can buy a working one for 200 dollars and get similar print quality. I've just taken that same idea, and much of the electronics development, and applied it to CNC machine tools. I expect that other machine tool builders will start making their own SwissMak style machines later on, but they aren't willing to take the risk until they see the market response and have their engineers buy one from us and dissect it to see just how we manage to get a multitasking machine in a cubic meter for a few thousand dollars.

    I posted the pictures of the rough base castings earlier toady, but I also checked in on our programmers progress on the mill-turn CAM software. This software may end up being just as important as the hardware we're making if we do it right. There are dozens of good CAM systems out there, but only the most expensive and complex programs are good for programming multitasking machines. What we're going for with our software is the full functionality and ability to program toolpaths for super complex parts, but in a way that is extremely easy and intuitive, requiring no prior CAM experience.

    It is fundamentally different from most CAM software in that it is more of a subtractive method of making gcode programs, rather than an additive method. All the CAM programs I've used start from a blank slate, and you must import a model and make the tool paths and operations one at a time. This is analogous to how a 3d printer starts at the bottom and must complete every linear segment until the 3d print is done. Our CAM software is more analogous to a near-net part that was forged or cast. You start with something that is almost exactly what you want, and you just make minor changes to it to complete it. It runs on a touchscreen PC mounted on the side of the enclosure, our medium term software goal is to be able to tap on the screen 5 times or less through the parametric part catalog and end up with a complete 3+2 mill-turn program to machine all 6 faces of a complex part. You start by looking at a page full of graphic icons of various parts, grouped by their geometric similarity. Each one of these icons is defined by a table of operations and canned cycles used to create it. It is somewhat similar to navigating through the McMaster Carr online catalog, where you can scroll through endless pages of industrial hardware and see pretty much every variation of the hardware you want.

    So to summarize, you poke the screen where you see a part that looks kind of like what you want to make, then you just make little modifications to it to get your exact part. This obviously does nothing for free-form curvy parts, but those usually require raster type tool paths anyway. Nothing to stop someone from importing an existing gcode file and appending it to the main program.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Generic Default View Post
    I don't think there's even the slightest bit of willingness within machine tool companies to try significantly different designs. The whole premise of the SwissMak project is to miniaturize the most capable and versatile CNC design (mill turn) and reduce the cost to the point where it is affordable for hobbyists and small businesses. It's following in the footsteps of the open source 3d printer projects. FDM printers used to cost over $20,000. Now you can buy a working one for 200 dollars and get similar print quality. I've just taken that same idea, and much of the electronics development, and applied it to CNC machine tools. I expect that other machine tool builders will start making their own SwissMak style machines later on, but they aren't willing to take the risk until they see the market response and have their engineers buy one from us and dissect it to see just how we manage to get a multitasking machine in a cubic meter for a few thousand dollars.

    I posted the pictures of the rough base castings earlier toady, but I also checked in on our programmers progress on the mill-turn CAM software. This software may end up being just as important as the hardware we're making if we do it right. There are dozens of good CAM systems out there, but only the most expensive and complex programs are good for programming multitasking machines. What we're going for with our software is the full functionality and ability to program toolpaths for super complex parts, but in a way that is extremely easy and intuitive, requiring no prior CAM experience.

    It is fundamentally different from most CAM software in that it is more of a subtractive method of making gcode programs, rather than an additive method. All the CAM programs I've used start from a blank slate, and you must import a model and make the tool paths and operations one at a time. This is analogous to how a 3d printer starts at the bottom and must complete every linear segment until the 3d print is done. Our CAM software is more analogous to a near-net part that was forged or cast. You start with something that is almost exactly what you want, and you just make minor changes to it to complete it. It runs on a touchscreen PC mounted on the side of the enclosure, our medium term software goal is to be able to tap on the screen 5 times or less through the parametric part catalog and end up with a complete 3+2 mill-turn program to machine all 6 faces of a complex part. You start by looking at a page full of graphic icons of various parts, grouped by their geometric similarity. Each one of these icons is defined by a table of operations and canned cycles used to create it. It is somewhat similar to navigating through the McMaster Carr online catalog, where you can scroll through endless pages of industrial hardware and see pretty much every variation of the hardware you want.

    So to summarize, you poke the screen where you see a part that looks kind of like what you want to make, then you just make little modifications to it to get your exact part. This obviously does nothing for free-form curvy parts, but those usually require raster type tool paths anyway. Nothing to stop someone from importing an existing gcode file and appending it to the main program.
    So you're basically starting from the ground up, again.
    And you're telling me you plan to do this on a $200K budget?
    And be done this decade?
    This opens another million and one possible excuses for not delivering......

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    Dare I ask:

    In your handreds of hours of machining - how much of it was with a mill/turn machine?


    ------------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox

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    Quote Originally Posted by Generic Default View Post
    I don't think there's even the slightest bit of willingness within machine tool companies to try significantly different designs. The whole premise of the SwissMak project is to miniaturize the most capable and versatile CNC design (mill turn) and reduce the cost to the point where it is affordable for hobbyists and small businesses. It's following in the footsteps of the open source 3d printer projects. FDM printers used to cost over $20,000. Now you can buy a working one for 200 dollars and get similar print quality. I've just taken that same idea, and much of the electronics development, and applied it to CNC machine tools. I expect that other machine tool builders will start making their own SwissMak style machines later on, but they aren't willing to take the risk until they see the market response and have their engineers buy one from us and dissect it to see just how we manage to get a multitasking machine in a cubic meter for a few thousand dollars.

    I posted the pictures of the rough base castings earlier toady, but I also checked in on our programmers progress on the mill-turn CAM software. This software may end up being just as important as the hardware we're making if we do it right. There are dozens of good CAM systems out there, but only the most expensive and complex programs are good for programming multitasking machines. What we're going for with our software is the full functionality and ability to program toolpaths for super complex parts, but in a way that is extremely easy and intuitive, requiring no prior CAM experience.

    It is fundamentally different from most CAM software in that it is more of a subtractive method of making gcode programs, rather than an additive method. All the CAM programs I've used start from a blank slate, and you must import a model and make the tool paths and operations one at a time. This is analogous to how a 3d printer starts at the bottom and must complete every linear segment until the 3d print is done. Our CAM software is more analogous to a near-net part that was forged or cast. You start with something that is almost exactly what you want, and you just make minor changes to it to complete it. It runs on a touchscreen PC mounted on the side of the enclosure, our medium term software goal is to be able to tap on the screen 5 times or less through the parametric part catalog and end up with a complete 3+2 mill-turn program to machine all 6 faces of a complex part. You start by looking at a page full of graphic icons of various parts, grouped by their geometric similarity. Each one of these icons is defined by a table of operations and canned cycles used to create it. It is somewhat similar to navigating through the McMaster Carr online catalog, where you can scroll through endless pages of industrial hardware and see pretty much every variation of the hardware you want.

    So to summarize, you poke the screen where you see a part that looks kind of like what you want to make, then you just make little modifications to it to get your exact part. This obviously does nothing for free-form curvy parts, but those usually require raster type tool paths anyway. Nothing to stop someone from importing an existing gcode file and appending it to the main program.
    I disagree with this characterization of CAM software. They way you describe it is exactly backwards from how it really is.

    You start with a piece of stock and subtract from it with cuts to create a finished part.

    This is the fundamental design difference between traditional machining and 3D printing.

    I have made complex parts with tight tolerances that required 5 side machining, so I am intimately familiar with the CAM principles.

    It took me 6 weeks to draw 6 views and program 5 sides, including the tooling to hold the part. This process also required using form cutters to eliminate contouring and path optimizations so I could fit the G-code in a control with 70KB of memory.

    It sounds to me like you want to take the 3D printing approach to subtractive machining: Here's the stock piece and here's the STL, now contour away everything that isn't the 3D model.

    That will work for decorative pieces, but never for pieces that need tight tolerances on key features.

  21. #617
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    Quote Originally Posted by Generic Default View Post
    I expect that other machine tool builders will start making their own SwissMak style machines later on, but they aren't willing to take the risk until they see the market response and have their engineers buy one from us and dissect it to see just how we manage to get a multitasking machine in a cubic meter for a few thousand dollars.
    Good one! Pretty sure guys like Gene Haas are risk averse to spending a couple $100k on product development, but sitting there anxiously waiting for the SwissMak to go on sale so they can buy one and reverse engineer it. Even though you have spent almost $200k and not made a single machine you still claim to be able to sell them for a couple thousand dollars for the base model. Now for that price it will come with software that a $25k seat of Mastercam can't do.

    On a lighter note with a much larger factory and a half dozen employees why does it appear that you are outsourcing parts that could easily be made on your machining center? You probably forgot claiming that machining the components was easy.

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    I think I'll buy a Swissmak just for the software.
    I'll just throw the machine away and keep the control.

    Why buy Mastercam?


    PS: Not putting money down with Kickstarter.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChipSplitter View Post
    I think I'll buy a Swissmak just for the software.
    I'll just throw the machine away and keep the control.

    Why buy Mastercam?


    PS: Not putting money down with Kickstarter.
    I am pretty sure the revolutionary software will be written to generate code that only a SwissMak can decipher. Looks like not only will machine tool builders be buying SwissMaks to copy the mechanical design, software companies will buy them to steal the programming concepts. Of course if a know everything genius like the OP hasn't produced squat in over two years he should have plenty of time to sell them before the knock offs hit the market.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Generic Default View Post
    ..... I expect that other machine tool builders will start making their own SwissMak style machines later on, but they aren't willing to take the risk until they see the market response and have their engineers buy one from us and dissect it to see just how we manage to get a multitasking machine in a cubic meter for a few thousand dollars.
    ...
    It is fundamentally different from most CAM software in that it is more of a subtractive method of making gcode programs,.......... You start with something that is almost exactly what you want, and you just make minor changes to it to complete it. It runs on a touchscreen PC mounted on the side of the enclosure, our medium term software goal is to be able to tap on the screen 5 times or less through the parametric part catalog and end up with a complete 3+2 mill-turn program to machine all 6 faces of a complex part. .....
    On A) ... nope. The other machine builders are way past you and the development of most bigger machines start out as small models to work things out.
    On B)....This is truly ambitious. I see a brick wall here and/or millions of lines of code and AI that does not exist yet.

    I would have hoped some past lessons would have taught you more. On that I am trully disappointed.
    Scale back your plans, this castle too big to build. Never trust the software guys and the dreams there.
    You are taking on both ends of the system without field experience in building either.
    I defend you here because I've made mistakes and do not like piling on but if you were my son or student........
    Basics, baby steps. Learn to crawl before you try to run. No fancy 5 touch programming or pick and choose UI.
    The ultimate programming instruction is DWIT . Do What I am Thinking. Never seems to work.
    Forget your ego or things to prove to others, take big steps backwards from the holy grail and KISS.
    Eat the crow. take the beating as need be and concentrate on a useful if limited product.
    Bob
    (PS, never, ever under any circumstances hire or team up with a sales manger from a big name company... certain death follows)


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