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    Quote Originally Posted by Generic Default View Post
    When I was buying machines, I'd always reach up and pop the e-stop in the middle of a toolchange while some demo was being run without the sales guys knowing I was gonna do that.

    Vancbiker, cruel and unusual punishment is unconstitutional.
    That's not cruel and unusual. In fact, I might do that myself........

    It's a good way to separate the wheat from the chaff.

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    @GenericDefault / OverlorRobotics

    Is there anything (in retrospect) that you would have done differently ? <<< Key question.

    It's interesting to me that the whole 'Vector" of your life has changed considerably since your professor threw some seed money at you during your degree (showing he/she believed in you), and @Metalbasher helped you cobble together a proof of concept model / machine --- > Leave your degree early (unfinished), - goto California ---> Goto Taiwan --- > ?

    This could be a five to ten year project (as stated much earlier) is the plan now to live permanently in Taiwan ?

    Ta.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChipSplitter View Post
    Yah, but it's not THAT hard to make software.

    Just lines of ones and zeros......
    You sound like my old physics prof-
    Physics is easy, F=MA is all you need to know!

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  7. #664
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    Quote Originally Posted by cameraman View Post
    @GenericDefault / OverlorRobotics

    Is there anything (in retrospect) that you would have done differently ? <<< Key question.

    It's interesting to me that the whole 'Vector" of your life has changed considerably since your professor threw some seed money at you during your degree (showing he/she believed in you), and @Metalbasher helped you cobble together a proof of concept model / machine --- > Leave your degree early (unfinished), - goto California ---> Goto Taiwan --- > ?

    This could be a five to ten year project (as stated much earlier) is the plan now to live permanently in Taiwan ?

    Ta.

    Yes, but it is a case of hindsight being 20/20. At the time, I planned the Kickstarter extensively and I still believe it was the right choice at the time. Some of the people on this forum have said that I just slapped it together and didn't think of the potential problems that could arise. That's not true, I built two prototypes in the machine shop at the university and planned the business thoroughly, it was not just wishful thinking. Of course knowing a few key things about what would happen in the future (namely, the Trump tariffs / trade war, and this global pandemic). The way I priced the Kickstarter machines didn't allow for a sudden, massive increase in the bill of materials cost. The prices I paid for metal in 2018 / 2019 and the import duties I paid on all the motors and stuff that can only be bought from China were what pushed the Kickstarter project over the edge.

    But, seeing how this pandemic has shut down America's economy makes me think that the business would have failed now even if I had been able to deliver the Kickstarter machines on time. I would still be paying that extra %30 for the electronics and imported stuff, and with California being shut down to non-essential work, I would be bleeding to death from the ever increasing LA shop rent and fixed overhead costs without being able to produce or ship machines. If I was there, I would probably get booked in a county jail for violating the stay at home orders and going to my shop to work. Maybe I wouldn't be able to work at all if I couldn't buy the materials needed.

    I should also mention that the article makes people think I just completely dropped out of school to pursue this; I was unsatisfied with my academic experiences at CU Boulder and I wanted to finish my degree at one of the Cal state schools. A year before the Kickstarter I went to visit my relatives in CA and I checked out all of the Cal state schools with EE programs, and made sure my ~110-out-of-130 credits would transfer. So I was going to leave Colorado either way to get a year of residency in CA before getting in-state tuition and finishing my degree in EE.

    I figured if the Kickstarter was successful, I would build and fulfill those orders, then see what demand there was for the SwissMak after the Kickstarter project was wrapped up. If demand was good, I would continue running the business, since it would be more fulfilling to myself as an [almost] engineer to be able to create cool machine products of my own design. If the numbers from the Kickstarter continued, even at a fraction of their rate, it would be a profitable business and I would grow it from there. If the numbers were to stagnate after the Kickstarter, and be extremely low to the point of being unprofitable, or if they were just barely enough to cover overhead, I would close the business and finish my EE degree at one of the Cal state schools. That was my line of thinking; business as a primary goal, with finishing the EE degree as a backup plan.


    What actually happened was a combination of two things that I least expected; the first, that I was unable to complete the Kickstarter machines due to unplanned factors (trade war, supply problems) and it got dragged out to the point where I was massively behind schedule with an inadequate budget to finish. The second thing that happened was the demand increased without stopping. These two trends were persistent from late 2018 and 2019, and had me thinking along the lines of....

    .."There is an ever-accumulating group of people asking how to order the SwissMak, but it is apparent that I will not be able to complete my Kickstarter obligations and be able to produce new machines given the location I picked to run this manufacturing business from."

    The more I thought about this, the more it reminded me of a snarky comment that the machine shop director in Colorado told me when I was making some of the parts towards the end of my project. He said something like, "So, you're just gonna do the fundraiser, and then take it to Taiwan and start makin' a bunch of these?" He was joking because at the time I was insistent on starting the business in America and making them here in the US.

    But, in retrospect, it would have been the smartest option to go straight to Taiwan from the beginning. This place I'm in now, Taichung City, has more than 100 companies building CNC machines of all types, and the industry cluster here is more conducive to building machinery than anywhere else in the world. Yes, it could be done a little bit cheaper in mainland China, but with the trade war and current hostility towards westerners within China, going there would be a bad idea unless the only goal was to produce machines for the domestic Chinese market. Being able to live here in Taiwan during this global pandemic is a massive privilege, akin to taking the day off work by chance instead of going into the WTC on the morning of 9/11. There is no lock down here, and only a few people have actually gotten the virus from community transmission in Taiwan. This society reacted in an intelligent way from the beginning of the Wuhan virus, and as a result Taiwan has been almost completely spared from its effects. Life is normal and free here, and it makes me really sad to see what has been happening in the US for the last few months, and all the negative things that are expected to happen to the US as a result of these economic problems flaring up. I didn't plan to stay in Taiwan indefinitely, but the quality of life here is actually a step up from living a few blocks from the beach in Orange county (which was also a massive step up from Colorado).

    I really hope America is able to recover and get back to normal, but people here in Taiwan are now viewing America in the same way Americans viewed African countries when they were having ebola outbreaks. It's looking from the outside, feeling sorry for people who are impacted by it, and at the same time not wanting to travel there. Taiwan is both very westernized and Japanified in terms of food and culture, the infrastructure is great and it doesn't have many of the downsides of other countries in this region. Given the current travel ban, I would not be able to re-enter Taiwan if I were to leave, so until America gets back to a semi-normal state I'll be here in Taiwan.


    In terms of the project, it's frustrating to see people on this forum doubt the most basic things I say. Like, I recently posted photos of the wood patterns, and people were claiming I wasn't in Taiwan at all. Then I posted photos of landmarks in Taiwan, and photos of the actual cast iron machine bases, and people still are suggesting that there were never any investors, and I'm leeching from a sugar mama? It's silly to me, because everyone knows sugar mamas exist to support drug habits, not machinery building habits.

    Part of the private equity investment was a pledge to finish the Kickstarter machines as a first priority, while preparing the factory to produce new machines for future customers. If you believe that this project is supported by a group of investors, you must conclude that we either intend to:

    (A) Finish and ship all Kickstarter machines, even at a loss

    or

    (B) Never finish and ship the Kickstarter machines, and somehow think anyone would want to buy new machines from a company with such a reputation.

    The obvious choice is (A), and the investors are fully aware that the Kickstarter machines must be finished and shipped. I would not have taken on the investor group if they didn't have similar values of putting customers first. It sucks that it has taken so long past the estimated delivery date, but I made it my mission to get these machines to the Kickstarter backers from the beginning, and I don't give up.

    The post-Kickstarter machines will not be advertised or listed for sale until we actually have them assembled, tested, and crated up for export, ready to go, with a 3 year warranty or the like. Some of the comments here have suggested that this forum thread would prevent anyone from ever wanting to buy a machine from us, but I disagree. Anyone can take the time to read through this whole machinist soap opera and come to their own conclusions, but what people ultimately pay attention to is the beginning and the end, and the end is when Kickstarter backers finally get their machines and start making parts and posting videos on youtube of them doing awesome mill-turn stuff in their garage. I hate that it had to take so long, and like Cameraman suggested, I always think about what I would have done differently had I known what the path would look like. But I have done my best at every step, and I managed to pull the PE investor group together to support this project so I could deliver on my promises instead of failing and losing the deliverables completely like other Kickstarter projects have done.

    So late next week when we get the shipment I will assemble a few of them on the wood work tables in our factory and take pictures. And in a few weeks after that when we have the rest of the cast iron parts, I will assemble those and post more pictures here. This forum thread will keep going on until it has a steady state conclusion where we're making and selling new machines like any other company.

    hmm I should get some sleep, I'm still in the factory office past 2 am and everyone comes in around 9. I hope you guys actually read this whole exorbitantly long reply before responding to it, maybe try to see it from my point of view.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Generic Default View Post
    Yes, but it is a case of hindsight being 20/20. At the time, I planned the Kickstarter extensively and I still believe it was the right choice at the time. Some of the people on this forum have said that I just slapped it together and didn't think of the potential problems that could arise. That's not true, I built two prototypes in the machine shop at the university and planned the business thoroughly, it was not just wishful thinking. Of course knowing a few key things about what would happen in the future (namely, the Trump tariffs / trade war, and this global pandemic). The way I priced the Kickstarter machines didn't allow for a sudden, massive increase in the bill of materials cost. The prices I paid for metal in 2018 / 2019 and the import duties I paid on all the motors and stuff that can only be bought from China were what pushed the Kickstarter project over the edge.

    But, seeing how this pandemic has shut down America's economy makes me think that the business would have failed now even if I had been able to deliver the Kickstarter machines on time. I would still be paying that extra %30 for the electronics and imported stuff, and with California being shut down to non-essential work, I would be bleeding to death from the ever increasing LA shop rent and fixed overhead costs without being able to produce or ship machines. If I was there, I would probably get booked in a county jail for violating the stay at home orders and going to my shop to work. Maybe I wouldn't be able to work at all if I couldn't buy the materials needed.

    I should also mention that the article makes people think I just completely dropped out of school to pursue this; I was unsatisfied with my academic experiences at CU Boulder and I wanted to finish my degree at one of the Cal state schools. A year before the Kickstarter I went to visit my relatives in CA and I checked out all of the Cal state schools with EE programs, and made sure my ~110-out-of-130 credits would transfer. So I was going to leave Colorado either way to get a year of residency in CA before getting in-state tuition and finishing my degree in EE.

    I figured if the Kickstarter was successful, I would build and fulfill those orders, then see what demand there was for the SwissMak after the Kickstarter project was wrapped up. If demand was good, I would continue running the business, since it would be more fulfilling to myself as an [almost] engineer to be able to create cool machine products of my own design. If the numbers from the Kickstarter continued, even at a fraction of their rate, it would be a profitable business and I would grow it from there. If the numbers were to stagnate after the Kickstarter, and be extremely low to the point of being unprofitable, or if they were just barely enough to cover overhead, I would close the business and finish my EE degree at one of the Cal state schools. That was my line of thinking; business as a primary goal, with finishing the EE degree as a backup plan.


    What actually happened was a combination of two things that I least expected; the first, that I was unable to complete the Kickstarter machines due to unplanned factors (trade war, supply problems) and it got dragged out to the point where I was massively behind schedule with an inadequate budget to finish. The second thing that happened was the demand increased without stopping. These two trends were persistent from late 2018 and 2019, and had me thinking along the lines of....

    .."There is an ever-accumulating group of people asking how to order the SwissMak, but it is apparent that I will not be able to complete my Kickstarter obligations and be able to produce new machines given the location I picked to run this manufacturing business from."

    The more I thought about this, the more it reminded me of a snarky comment that the machine shop director in Colorado told me when I was making some of the parts towards the end of my project. He said something like, "So, you're just gonna do the fundraiser, and then take it to Taiwan and start makin' a bunch of these?" He was joking because at the time I was insistent on starting the business in America and making them here in the US.

    But, in retrospect, it would have been the smartest option to go straight to Taiwan from the beginning. This place I'm in now, Taichung City, has more than 100 companies building CNC machines of all types, and the industry cluster here is more conducive to building machinery than anywhere else in the world. Yes, it could be done a little bit cheaper in mainland China, but with the trade war and current hostility towards westerners within China, going there would be a bad idea unless the only goal was to produce machines for the domestic Chinese market. Being able to live here in Taiwan during this global pandemic is a massive privilege, akin to taking the day off work by chance instead of going into the WTC on the morning of 9/11. There is no lock down here, and only a few people have actually gotten the virus from community transmission in Taiwan. This society reacted in an intelligent way from the beginning of the Wuhan virus, and as a result Taiwan has been almost completely spared from its effects. Life is normal and free here, and it makes me really sad to see what has been happening in the US for the last few months, and all the negative things that are expected to happen to the US as a result of these economic problems flaring up. I didn't plan to stay in Taiwan indefinitely, but the quality of life here is actually a step up from living a few blocks from the beach in Orange county (which was also a massive step up from Colorado).

    I really hope America is able to recover and get back to normal, but people here in Taiwan are now viewing America in the same way Americans viewed African countries when they were having ebola outbreaks. It's looking from the outside, feeling sorry for people who are impacted by it, and at the same time not wanting to travel there. Taiwan is both very westernized and Japanified in terms of food and culture, the infrastructure is great and it doesn't have many of the downsides of other countries in this region. Given the current travel ban, I would not be able to re-enter Taiwan if I were to leave, so until America gets back to a semi-normal state I'll be here in Taiwan.


    In terms of the project, it's frustrating to see people on this forum doubt the most basic things I say. Like, I recently posted photos of the wood patterns, and people were claiming I wasn't in Taiwan at all. Then I posted photos of landmarks in Taiwan, and photos of the actual cast iron machine bases, and people still are suggesting that there were never any investors, and I'm leeching from a sugar mama? It's silly to me, because everyone knows sugar mamas exist to support drug habits, not machinery building habits.

    Part of the private equity investment was a pledge to finish the Kickstarter machines as a first priority, while preparing the factory to produce new machines for future customers. If you believe that this project is supported by a group of investors, you must conclude that we either intend to:

    (A) Finish and ship all Kickstarter machines, even at a loss

    or

    (B) Never finish and ship the Kickstarter machines, and somehow think anyone would want to buy new machines from a company with such a reputation.

    The obvious choice is (A), and the investors are fully aware that the Kickstarter machines must be finished and shipped. I would not have taken on the investor group if they didn't have similar values of putting customers first. It sucks that it has taken so long past the estimated delivery date, but I made it my mission to get these machines to the Kickstarter backers from the beginning, and I don't give up.

    The post-Kickstarter machines will not be advertised or listed for sale until we actually have them assembled, tested, and crated up for export, ready to go, with a 3 year warranty or the like. Some of the comments here have suggested that this forum thread would prevent anyone from ever wanting to buy a machine from us, but I disagree. Anyone can take the time to read through this whole machinist soap opera and come to their own conclusions, but what people ultimately pay attention to is the beginning and the end, and the end is when Kickstarter backers finally get their machines and start making parts and posting videos on youtube of them doing awesome mill-turn stuff in their garage. I hate that it had to take so long, and like Cameraman suggested, I always think about what I would have done differently had I known what the path would look like. But I have done my best at every step, and I managed to pull the PE investor group together to support this project so I could deliver on my promises instead of failing and losing the deliverables completely like other Kickstarter projects have done.

    So late next week when we get the shipment I will assemble a few of them on the wood work tables in our factory and take pictures. And in a few weeks after that when we have the rest of the cast iron parts, I will assemble those and post more pictures here. This forum thread will keep going on until it has a steady state conclusion where we're making and selling new machines like any other company.

    hmm I should get some sleep, I'm still in the factory office past 2 am and everyone comes in around 9. I hope you guys actually read this whole exorbitantly long reply before responding to it, maybe try to see it from my point of view.

    I can't really comment on what would or would not have been in your "sphere' of control "theoretically" etc.

    Good that the investment group understands that the kickstarter 'peeps" are a priority ~ Hopefully they (kickstarter funders) get some extra benefit from your newer knowledge and increasing capability - understood those will be provided at a loss to you but they helped 'Kickstart" your company - which is 1/2 the reason for kickstarter (I believe ?) not just "Peeps" getting sophisticated stuff for much less $ ? I think that's the contract - help start a company get something in return.

    With Gcoder05 , don't worry he's just trying to put the sh*ts up you like a slightly sociopathic older brother... He is relentless... sometimes in a good way... Taiwan is pretty awesome and in my view culturally the 'Real" China in many respects. Not that some of the crazy sh*t that Gcoder mentions doesn't go on (like any urban center in the world have your street smarts and head screwed on straight and not be overly trusting or naïve.) . There's some terrific stuff that happens on the Semiconductor front in Taiwan- really great and original capabilities. There's a very good "vibe" with some of Taiwan's younger entrepreneurs not just the Terry Gou's of the world.

    Not to put the sh*ts up you(either), but I have always been wary of Mainland China's constitutional obligation to absorb Taiwan.

    I have always been wary of if things go "tits" up economically for mainland China/CCP, then the temptation to grab - legislatively or by " peaceful" - invasion would be too much for Xi Jinping to resist. Reason and opportunity would be substantial given new legislation on Hong Kong and current distractions back in the USA + the Brits are not going to take on China for moving the agreed upon schedule up by about 27 years - almost instantly, (The UK being the only other co-signatory of the handover of Hong Kong under John Major ~ There was a clause/ provision for that if China decided not to "Play fair" ) I don't think the U.K. has much leverage over the situation now .

    War is "Theft" after all and CCP's long game for increased sovereignty will not diminish. The current ramped up policy for Hong Kong has direct implications for Taiwan. + Recent military maneuvers and exercises / actualized "theatre" to more concretely practice a full scale invasion of Taiwan, (usually an annual event, but this year Xi Jinping is being very hands on with it. A very clear message especially within the context of Hong Kong and the current direction of the world economy.).

    At some point YOU @GD/Overlord Robotics - having some sort of presence in California or elsewhere in the USA (eventually) may serve as a useful exit strategy for your new Taiwanese colleges if it ever comes to that as a plan B or plan C. Maybe plant some sort of flag back in the USA at some point that makes actual sense assuming this all "blows over". Key point you don't want substantial foreign assets being stuck in Taiwan if the sh*t hits the fan. . Basically your passport, your tech (being deliberately unique), and basic right to set up US companies/ entities of one sort or another offers an "Insurance policy" of sorts for Taiwanese technicians working on your unique tech (specialized tech, after some [email protected] time in Taiwan, that does not exist in the USA) - at least reasonably provable to the US state department. At least they could leave and work in the USA on a visa if severe pressure from the CCP was brought to bear and 'peeps" from Taiwan would essentially attempt to flee.

    I don't expect that the CCP's posturing will ever come to that or they will really have the balls to actually take Taiwan but it's something in the back of many people's minds.

    If Taiwan becomes the second domino of the "One Country two systems "- failure,(after Hong Kong) then composite US/Taiwanese or Japanese/ Taiwanese or German / Taiwanese etc./Taiwanese corporations may have a much more difficult time of things + Brain drain from Taiwan. A lot of value, expertise and infrastructure will be lost + additional and manifest chaos of trying to integrate into the CCP's way of doing things <<< For larger US companies that already have mirrored divisions in mainland China that may not be such an upheaval but certainly will be for companies that don't have presence and experience in the PRC.
    Last edited by cameraman; 05-27-2020 at 11:45 AM. Reason: schtufffff / readabiltiy/ increased "understandabiltiy" -ish

  10. #666
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cole2534 View Post
    You sound like my old physics prof-
    I was just applying GD's logic.......

    "Making a machine tool is easy. Just slap a few pieces of 6061 aluminum together, add stepper motors for 9 axis, plunk a circuit board on to run it------- VOILA!!!!"



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  12. #667
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    GD, as stated before, successful entrepreneurs are those that don't give up, no matter how much shit is thrown their way. Keep at it, adapt as you learn, and stay totally focused on your goals.

    Taiwan is a fantastic country....

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    Quote Originally Posted by drcoelho View Post
    GD, as stated before, successful entrepreneurs are those that don't give up, no matter how much shit is thrown their way. Keep at it, adapt as you learn, and stay totally focused on your goals.

    Taiwan is a fantastic country....
    But they also don't make up excuse after excuse and lie after lie. The guy has been caught lying too many times.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Generic Default View Post
    Yes, but it is a case of hindsight being 20/20. At the time, I planned the Kickstarter extensively and I still believe it was the right choice at the time. Some of the people on this forum have said that I just slapped it together and didn't think of the potential problems that could arise. That's not true, I built two prototypes in the machine shop at the university and planned the business thoroughly, it was not just wishful thinking. Of course knowing a few key things about what would happen in the future (namely, the Trump tariffs / trade war, and this global pandemic). The way I priced the Kickstarter machines didn't allow for a sudden, massive increase in the bill of materials cost. The prices I paid for metal in 2018 / 2019 and the import duties I paid on all the motors and stuff that can only be bought from China were what pushed the Kickstarter project over the edge.

    But, seeing how this pandemic has shut down America's economy makes me think that the business would have failed now even if I had been able to deliver the Kickstarter machines on time. I would still be paying that extra %30 for the electronics and imported stuff, and with California being shut down to non-essential work, I would be bleeding to death from the ever increasing LA shop rent and fixed overhead costs without being able to produce or ship machines. If I was there, I would probably get booked in a county jail for violating the stay at home orders and going to my shop to work. Maybe I wouldn't be able to work at all if I couldn't buy the materials needed.

    I should also mention that the article makes people think I just completely dropped out of school to pursue this; I was unsatisfied with my academic experiences at CU Boulder and I wanted to finish my degree at one of the Cal state schools. A year before the Kickstarter I went to visit my relatives in CA and I checked out all of the Cal state schools with EE programs, and made sure my ~110-out-of-130 credits would transfer. So I was going to leave Colorado either way to get a year of residency in CA before getting in-state tuition and finishing my degree in EE.

    I figured if the Kickstarter was successful, I would build and fulfill those orders, then see what demand there was for the SwissMak after the Kickstarter project was wrapped up. If demand was good, I would continue running the business, since it would be more fulfilling to myself as an [almost] engineer to be able to create cool machine products of my own design. If the numbers from the Kickstarter continued, even at a fraction of their rate, it would be a profitable business and I would grow it from there. If the numbers were to stagnate after the Kickstarter, and be extremely low to the point of being unprofitable, or if they were just barely enough to cover overhead, I would close the business and finish my EE degree at one of the Cal state schools. That was my line of thinking; business as a primary goal, with finishing the EE degree as a backup plan.


    What actually happened was a combination of two things that I least expected; the first, that I was unable to complete the Kickstarter machines due to unplanned factors (trade war, supply problems) and it got dragged out to the point where I was massively behind schedule with an inadequate budget to finish. The second thing that happened was the demand increased without stopping. These two trends were persistent from late 2018 and 2019, and had me thinking along the lines of....

    .."There is an ever-accumulating group of people asking how to order the SwissMak, but it is apparent that I will not be able to complete my Kickstarter obligations and be able to produce new machines given the location I picked to run this manufacturing business from."

    The more I thought about this, the more it reminded me of a snarky comment that the machine shop director in Colorado told me when I was making some of the parts towards the end of my project. He said something like, "So, you're just gonna do the fundraiser, and then take it to Taiwan and start makin' a bunch of these?" He was joking because at the time I was insistent on starting the business in America and making them here in the US.

    But, in retrospect, it would have been the smartest option to go straight to Taiwan from the beginning. This place I'm in now, Taichung City, has more than 100 companies building CNC machines of all types, and the industry cluster here is more conducive to building machinery than anywhere else in the world. Yes, it could be done a little bit cheaper in mainland China, but with the trade war and current hostility towards westerners within China, going there would be a bad idea unless the only goal was to produce machines for the domestic Chinese market. Being able to live here in Taiwan during this global pandemic is a massive privilege, akin to taking the day off work by chance instead of going into the WTC on the morning of 9/11. There is no lock down here, and only a few people have actually gotten the virus from community transmission in Taiwan. This society reacted in an intelligent way from the beginning of the Wuhan virus, and as a result Taiwan has been almost completely spared from its effects. Life is normal and free here, and it makes me really sad to see what has been happening in the US for the last few months, and all the negative things that are expected to happen to the US as a result of these economic problems flaring up. I didn't plan to stay in Taiwan indefinitely, but the quality of life here is actually a step up from living a few blocks from the beach in Orange county (which was also a massive step up from Colorado).

    I really hope America is able to recover and get back to normal, but people here in Taiwan are now viewing America in the same way Americans viewed African countries when they were having ebola outbreaks. It's looking from the outside, feeling sorry for people who are impacted by it, and at the same time not wanting to travel there. Taiwan is both very westernized and Japanified in terms of food and culture, the infrastructure is great and it doesn't have many of the downsides of other countries in this region. Given the current travel ban, I would not be able to re-enter Taiwan if I were to leave, so until America gets back to a semi-normal state I'll be here in Taiwan.


    In terms of the project, it's frustrating to see people on this forum doubt the most basic things I say. Like, I recently posted photos of the wood patterns, and people were claiming I wasn't in Taiwan at all. Then I posted photos of landmarks in Taiwan, and photos of the actual cast iron machine bases, and people still are suggesting that there were never any investors, and I'm leeching from a sugar mama? It's silly to me, because everyone knows sugar mamas exist to support drug habits, not machinery building habits.

    Part of the private equity investment was a pledge to finish the Kickstarter machines as a first priority, while preparing the factory to produce new machines for future customers. If you believe that this project is supported by a group of investors, you must conclude that we either intend to:

    (A) Finish and ship all Kickstarter machines, even at a loss

    or

    (B) Never finish and ship the Kickstarter machines, and somehow think anyone would want to buy new machines from a company with such a reputation.

    The obvious choice is (A), and the investors are fully aware that the Kickstarter machines must be finished and shipped. I would not have taken on the investor group if they didn't have similar values of putting customers first. It sucks that it has taken so long past the estimated delivery date, but I made it my mission to get these machines to the Kickstarter backers from the beginning, and I don't give up.

    The post-Kickstarter machines will not be advertised or listed for sale until we actually have them assembled, tested, and crated up for export, ready to go, with a 3 year warranty or the like. Some of the comments here have suggested that this forum thread would prevent anyone from ever wanting to buy a machine from us, but I disagree. Anyone can take the time to read through this whole machinist soap opera and come to their own conclusions, but what people ultimately pay attention to is the beginning and the end, and the end is when Kickstarter backers finally get their machines and start making parts and posting videos on youtube of them doing awesome mill-turn stuff in their garage. I hate that it had to take so long, and like Cameraman suggested, I always think about what I would have done differently had I known what the path would look like. But I have done my best at every step, and I managed to pull the PE investor group together to support this project so I could deliver on my promises instead of failing and losing the deliverables completely like other Kickstarter projects have done.

    So late next week when we get the shipment I will assemble a few of them on the wood work tables in our factory and take pictures. And in a few weeks after that when we have the rest of the cast iron parts, I will assemble those and post more pictures here. This forum thread will keep going on until it has a steady state conclusion where we're making and selling new machines like any other company.

    hmm I should get some sleep, I'm still in the factory office past 2 am and everyone comes in around 9. I hope you guys actually read this whole exorbitantly long reply before responding to it, maybe try to see it from my point of view.
    I still want to help...

    Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dualkit View Post
    But they also don't make up excuse after excuse and lie after lie. The guy has been caught lying too many times.
    I'm not gonna put my skin in the game with respect to whether GD will succeed with his project or not. BUT, I will say that his last few posts have given me hope that there is credibility in his story....as I've stated prior, there is just too much detail here to believe it is all a lie...that story line no longer makes sense to me....I'm fairly confident he is in Taiwain, and if so he's betting the farm on his project, which bodes well for his long-term success.

    For every single one of my startups, I was totally naive about what I was getting into, made all sorts of mistakes and errors as a result, but learned VERY fast and ultimately ended being world class expert in each endeavor. Ultimately its all about LEARNING and staying course that makes the difference, not the initial early stupid mistakes.

    Next post I'm looking for is a picture of all that aluminum in his shop freshly arrived from Los Angeles....maybe Tuesday? Not long to wait....

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    Quote Originally Posted by drcoelho View Post
    ....I'm fairly confident he is in Taiwain, and if so he's betting the farm on his project, which bodes well for his long-term success....
    Just because he bets the farm doesn't mean it will all come out okay.

    With his attitude.........

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    Quote Originally Posted by Generic Default View Post

    I should also mention that the article makes people think I just completely dropped out of school to pursue this; I was unsatisfied with my academic experiences at CU Boulder and I wanted to finish my degree at one of the Cal state schools. A year before the Kickstarter I went to visit my relatives in CA and I checked out all of the Cal state schools with EE programs, and made sure my ~110-out-of-130 credits would transfer. So I was going to leave Colorado either way to get a year of residency in CA before getting in-state tuition and finishing my degree in EE.
    Sorry to hear you had such poor experience at CU. Wanting to transfer with only a year of credits left, must have been bad. I hope you voiced your concerns to the department chair, or someone in the deans office before leaving. If not, it is not too late.

    I started to follow because I am interested to see what end users use the machine for, and what the real world performance is after in the hands of a user. I'll probably check back in a few months, like I have been, and see what has progressed.

    I am confused by the story
    I am confused by the quoted specs
    I am confused why you continue to ignore as9100d
    I am confused why you keep coming back to this thread to duke it out w machinists who won't be your customer.

    Best of luck. Like I said in an earlier post, its your reputation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by drcoelho View Post
    I'm not gonna put my skin in the game with respect to whether GD will succeed with his project or not. BUT, I will say that his last few posts have given me hope that there is credibility in his story....as I've stated prior, there is just too much detail here to believe it is all a lie...that story line no longer makes sense to me....I'm fairly confident he is in Taiwain, and if so he's betting the farm on his project, which bodes well for his long-term success.

    For every single one of my startups, I was totally naive about what I was getting into, made all sorts of mistakes and errors as a result, but learned VERY fast and ultimately ended being world class expert in each endeavor. Ultimately its all about LEARNING and staying course that makes the difference, not the initial early stupid mistakes.

    Next post I'm looking for is a picture of all that aluminum in his shop freshly arrived from Los Angeles....maybe Tuesday? Not long to wait....
    What part of "he has not learned" escapes you? He hasn't owned up to any mistakes, he has constantly been caught lying. He is only here to counteract the bad press. He makes excuses and plays the blame game like a politician.

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    Lots of bad blood here, No doubt not what was wanted in the original roll out and much oops.
    I wonder who makes the best politician in today's world.
    Negative ads and name calling do certainly work and are a standard in the USA.

    I might be a bit gun shy of help here given this and the past.
    Tis a very big project with so many oh-shits in the details.

    Those who talk do the walk and build it as there is a market. You could become wealthy beyond your dreams.
    Financing now again low and near zero. This was the big key to Tormach success,... timing the market.
    Luck or thinking I have no idea but it surely worked. Any attempt to come in after not so good.
    Bob

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dualkit View Post
    What part of "he has not learned" escapes you? He hasn't owned up to any mistakes, he has constantly been caught lying. He is only here to counteract the bad press. He makes excuses and plays the blame game like a politician.
    You are citing TWO different concerns:
    1) "he hasn't owned up to any mistake" - you have a point, although he has tried to explain why he made various decisions along the way
    2) "he has not learned" - I don't agree, I can see lots of learning curve in progress

    And as I've stated preiviously, his credibility will start going up if he starts posting info with real pictures and real progress and no excuses.

    And also, I HAVE NO SKIN in this thread, just doing my own independent evaluation of the data as I see it (data which is pretty sparse to start with....)

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    Quote Originally Posted by drcoelho View Post
    And also, I HAVE NO SKIN in this thread, just doing my own independent evaluation of the data as I see it (data which is pretty sparse to start with....)
    My beef is he reminds me of someone I hired because he had a skill I did not possess, the ability to do cold call sales. Other than that the guy was a nightmare. Big ego, full of himself, a bubbling novice at things he claimed expertise at. Just a major bag of hot air, he was always looking to game the system, and take advantage of people.
    He constantly told outrageous lies to make sales. GD seems the spitting image of that guy. I will try to do my civic duty and help him to not round up anymore victims.

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    Quote Originally Posted by as9100d View Post
    I still want to help...

    Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
    *RANT ON*

    Holy shit, please respond to this specific post Generic Default. For the love of everything holy, please respond to this insanely generous offer. Tell him fuck off, tell him thanks but no thanks, tell him something!

    Since the beginning of this adventure, people on this site have offered help. We have given you very sound advice in the past before you purchased your machine/tooling/workholding/machining strategies...almost always some strange response that doesn't address what was offered up. Always a twist. It is mind-numbing.

    I have zero problems with you trying to do something insanely difficult. Actually, that is by far the most interesting part of what you are doing. You are attempting to create something that doesn't jive with the current norms. COOL! Nothing but love on that front. But man, you have got to get on-board here or just leave this part of the net alone, please. It's the arrogance with which you (sort of) answer and the flippancy regarding your approaches to solving some very difficult problems that are driving people insane (not to mention your list of excuses is embarrassingly long but hey, I as well as others are not empathetic to shit circumstances). The guys/gals on this forum have spent their lifetimes becoming efficient with the most advanced machine tools/machining software in the world made by companies that bleed money trying to develop better control scenarios, better finishes, etc. Try not to shit on all of that experience. Instead use the forum to ask questions then respond directly to the responses.

    You say you're gonna do it better...awesome. Just please stop the hand-waving, the "it's in a box" stuff. It is destroying (or destroyed in some cases) our ability to take you serious.

    *RANT OFF*
    Last edited by BugRobotics; 05-27-2020 at 11:12 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by drcoelho View Post
    There is merit to your argument, he does need to deliver something in relatively short order or he will lose credibility with all involved.

    I will tell you a story though, during my second startup, my business was 30 days from cash out and the Venture Capitalists (4 backers with many millions invested) all told the management that they were not going to further fund the company and would just let the business die...this was due to delays in initial product development (my area of responsibility, so my bad, the problem we were trying to solve was HARD HARD HARD)....anyway, we pulled a rabbit out of the hat and signed an OEM deal that put $500K cash into the bank, and within a few months the business took off like a rocket, 0-$30M in revenue in 24 months and 65 percent pre-tax profit....point being, even the "smartest" investors on the planet often get it wrong AND almost ALWAYS product development takes longer is harder and takes much more investment to complete than originally planned.
    Congratulations on your success! It's a great feeling.

    One thing that strikes me, though, having done the investor/startup thing myself previously. One thing I never had much of was time. Certainly not enough to be posting the long-ass posts he does on here. And I don't really see the point.. it's not like he's tossing ideas at people, and he doesn't appear to be updating his KS backers with even close to the same level of time he's putting in here. So what's the point? Vanity? The best counter argument to the negativity here is results. If I were an investor, I think I'd be kind of pissed off that so much time is being spent with an audience that has nothing to be gained from, and with whom only results will sway.

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    I am confused why you keep coming back to this thread to duke it out w machinists who won't be your customer.
    There's a good point. IF,,, the machine gets finished it will have to be marketed. As it stands the machine would pretty much be a web based sell. I really doubt that any of the machine tool distributors would ever consider picking up Swissmak, The publicity damage is done. Without changing the name and erasing the entire footprint from the beginning the three threads here on PM will always be at the top of a search. This one thread alone would be enough to dissuade most anyone who would consider buying a Swissmak. But, who knows. Maybe Harbor Freight will make a spot on the floor.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CarbideBob View Post
    Customer, .......my mistake, I thought this was a kickstarter deal.
    Curious, did you also order a "cnc brain" on another site fully knowing it was not a working product but loving the "maybe, someday,... too good to be true"?
    Bob
    The original deal was a KS deal... don't make the mistake of thinking those people are investors. They aren't. They are basically pre-order customers. Someone posts a project and states what they will do with the backers money, and commitments are made. It's not risk capital and may or may not pan out - it's supposed to be paying up front to allow the creator to do what they say they're gonna do in the proposal. Cost of materials should be a small portion of the total expenditure, so for material costs to be blamed for this project tanking... well, I'll say this - it wasn't material costs that sunk it.

    I don't know what you mean about me ordering a CNC brain on another site? I have a Speedio I bought new last year and an Okuma Genos lathe I bought new a couple months back. Before that I had various other CNC machines over the past 15+ years. My first machines were a Grizzly benchtop mill I converted to CNC about 20 years ago, a Bridgeport Boss8 I ripped out the whole control and drives from and re-made it, and a solder paste dispenser I designed and built servo drives for to convert it to a CNC machine using a Rotozip. I've done quite a lot of work in automation for myself and customers as a consultant over the past 20+ years too. It most definitely is not easy. Especially not when adding in 'revolutionary' CAM software too.


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