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  1. #701
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    Quote Originally Posted by Generic Default View Post
    The container ship showed up last week and the port guys inspected everything since it's our first large import as a company here. They held it up for 2 days because they literally went through the ENTIRE shipment, piece by piece, and found that the model numbers printed on 3 of the stepper motors were different and they couldn't find the manufacturers part number. Eventually they released it and the truck showed up at our factory warehouse a couple days ago with all the Kickstarter stuff. Attached photos.

    Attachment 290619
    Attachment 290620


    Mike1974,

    I actually built 2 prototype machines, you all saw the 2nd one in the Kickstarter but I made one more than a year before that as well. I got most of the machining done on the Kickstarter units before having to shut down the shop in LA, get the investor group going, move to Taiwan, and get the Taiwan business going. Now that the Kickstarter parts have finally arrived after being delayed multiple times, we can finish them and ship them to backers.


    There are basically 5 projects we're running concurrently right now:
    1) Finish Kickstarter machines
    2) Build new aluminum version of the Kickstarter machines for future sale
    3) Build new cast iron machines for future sale (industrial version)
    4) Develop electronics and firmware common to all of the above machines
    5) Develop CAM software common to all of the above machines, to run on PCs including the touchscreen PC that is on the new hexagonal enclosure design


    bryan_machine,

    We aren't building the software from nothing, I understand that existing CAM software (especially the high end stuff) takes years of constant, never ending development by a team of programmers. What we're doing is an order of magnitude more simple, and our business model and overhead is very different from CAM software companies. CAM software like Fusion can still program our machines, but it doesn't offer the ease of use we are looking for if we intend to sell mill-turn centers to people who are not professional machinists.


    cameraman,

    The current state of the software development is that it is runs as an application in Windows, works with the touchscreen, has basic lathe and mill cycles (ex. turn, thread, groove, pocket, slot, face, ect) and outputs gcode files. It also shows toolpaths in a 3d window along with part geometry. More uncommon cycles like thread whirling, sync skiving, 5 axis taper contouring, orbital turning, polygon turning ect. will be added later, as they are not essential to 90% of part designs.

    The ease-of-use functionality that I mentioned is the next phase, with the concept being that operators just tap on a part icon that looks similar to what they want to create, then they edit the exact parameters to amend the "canned cycles" that would create such a part. Curvy things, 3d contours, ect. are expected to be done in different software that already exists, then added to the gcode of the main program if needed. The SwissMak is not intended to be a mold-making machine, and mill-turn parts can generally be made from simple tool paths.

    Jashley,

    You should keep in mind that at some point in your life, things like inkjet printers were cutting edge tech that were expensive and limited to business use, requiring professionals to operate. Now you can go to Walmart and buy a cheap one for like 30$, and it works just fine. What I'm attempting to do is just miniaturize and consumerize one of the most capable types of CNC machines. Back when I was in Colorado I built two prototypes on a small budget, and they worked, and cut metal just fine. All the design changes since then have been improvements and upgrades, but the overall goal hasn't changed.

    A few more photos below:

    New aluminum version, cross base and un-assembled headstock
    Attachment 290621

    Basic assembly layout of one of the Kickstarter SwissMaks now that they are finally here. The other 35 are in boxes in the background and on the racks
    Attachment 290622

    Hardended and ground steel boxway rail intended for the new cast iron variant. Bigger in real life than it looks in the picture
    Attachment 290623
    I still want to help.....

    Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

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  3. #702
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    Quote Originally Posted by Generic Default View Post
    .....but it doesn't offer the ease of use we are looking for if we intend to sell mill-turn centers to people who are not professional machinists.
    So who IS going to be making mill-turn parts, then??

    ....You should keep in mind that at some point in your life, things like inkjet printers were cutting edge tech that were expensive and limited to business use, requiring professionals to operate.
    Now you can go to Walmart and buy a cheap one for like 30$, and it works just fine.
    That logic explains some things.......


    Oh BTW, nice cardboard........

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  5. #703
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    Quote Originally Posted by as9100d View Post
    I still want to help.....

    Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
    That's what... the 4th or 5th time you've offered and he's completely ignored every one?
    You would think he'd at least acknowledge the offer.

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    Why does Generic Default keep coming here before he goes and updates Kickstarter? I don't think any of us gave him a red cent. That flat out isn't the right thing to do, and I still smell bad intentions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mtndew View Post
    That's what... the 4th or 5th time you've offered and he's completely ignored every one?
    You would think he'd at least acknowledge the offer.
    Or at least tell me no thanks.

    Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by as9100d View Post
    Or at least tell me no thanks.

    Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
    He's in Taiwan, his phone broke, forgot his passwords...


    In all seriousness, I think he is afraid of getting exposed.

    @Dualkit. I don't know why he keeps coming back either. He's damn persistent that's for sure! Like others have said, he should probably just hang it up here, all he is doing is giving "bad press" to the SwissMak name.

    I would love to hear him just admit he fuc*ed up and this whole machining and development thing is a hell of a lot harder and more expensive than he thought.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1974 View Post
    He's in Taiwan, his phone broke, forgot his passwords...
    No Mike, you got that wrong. His KEYBOARD broke, he DIDN'T forget his password, he's probably in Burundi for all we know..........

    I liked your point about Haas, Mike. They spent years working on a basic 3 axis machine before thay even thought about a UMC750, let alone an Intergrex style machine......

    The more GD fights back the worse it gets.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Generic Excuse
    mill-turn parts can generally be made from simple tool paths.
    Guess we're all doing it wrong, boys! Time to hang up the hat and go work at McDonald's!

    Also, he mentioned thread whirling...

    A thread whirling head for one of my machines costs about 2.5x as much as his whole machine... I'm waiting to see the aluminum bodied, Delrin bushing, no bearings, driven thread whirling head for this machine.

    And I want to know what home hobbiest has a contact at Schwanog, Horn, Iscar, or Utilis, to get those thread whirling inserts.

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    Man, I wonder how safe this thing is gonna be for his price point. I know we like to shit on some of the more annoying interlocks and stuff on the newer machines, but as experienced machinists most of us could figure out how to stay safe without them. With his target audience being makers who want to keep one of these in their garage to play with like a 3d printer, I just can't imagine a scenario where people don't get hurt. When I was in tech school I saw what happened when we would bring the engineering kids in for one quarter. It's not that they weren't smart, or they were overconfident, they just literally didn't think about how easily a manual lathe could rip their face off. Or how easily a circular sander could take your fingertips off (happened).

    There are just a lot of rules to this stuff that someone green doesn't even consider. I keep imagining a person putting some wildly out of balance saw cut piece of stock .100" into the collect and maxing out the spindle. Or reaching into the machine to measure something while the spindle is running, with long hair or a necklace. Is he going to have to carry a massive amount of insurance for this?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Camputer View Post
    Man, I wonder how safe this thing is gonna be for his price point. I know we like to shit on some of the more annoying interlocks and stuff on the newer machines, but as experienced machinists most of us could figure out how to stay safe without them. With his target audience being makers who want to keep one of these in their garage to play with like a 3d printer, I just can't imagine a scenario where people don't get hurt. When I was in tech school I saw what happened when we would bring the engineering kids in for one quarter. It's not that they weren't smart, or they were overconfident, they just literally didn't think about how easily a manual lathe could rip their face off. Or how easily a circular sander could take your fingertips off (happened).

    There are just a lot of rules to this stuff that someone green doesn't even consider. I keep imagining a person putting some wildly out of balance saw cut piece of stock .100" into the collect and maxing out the spindle. Or reaching into the machine to measure something while the spindle is running, with long hair or a necklace. Is he going to have to carry a massive amount of insurance for this?
    Naw, he'll just plaster warning stickers everywhere and pray Hail Mary.......

    The difference is, a 3D printer has nothing that can really hurt you aside from burning your fingers on the hot tip.

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    That place looks like nothing but a storage facility. I don't see a run of conduit anywhere. Looks like everything is now getting outsourced, another picture of a simple 3D printed part. I would be so curious as to what kind of "investors" would get duped into this? To say all this is moving at a snail's pace is an understatement.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Generic Default View Post
    <snip for clarity >
    cameraman,

    The current state of the software development is that it is runs as an application in Windows,


    works with the touchscreen, has basic lathe and mill cycles (ex. turn, thread, groove, pocket, slot, face, ect) and outputs gcode files. It also shows toolpaths in a 3d window along with part geometry.

    <snip>

    Curvy things, 3d contours, ect. are expected to be done in different software that already exists, then added to the gcode of the main program if needed. The SwissMak is not intended to be a mold-making machine, and mill-turn parts can generally be made from simple tool paths.

    1.

    Quote Originally Posted by Generic Default View Post
    The current state of the software development is that it is runs as an application in Windows,
    ^^^ What does that actually mean ?




    2.

    Quote Originally Posted by Generic Default View Post
    works with the touchscreen, has basic lathe and mill cycles (ex. turn, thread, groove, pocket, slot, face, ect) and outputs gcode files. It also shows toolpaths in a 3d window along with part geometry.
    Is that a wish list, or to do list, or are the (grammatical) tenses used indicate that certain things have been accomplished in the past / blocked out already, and are already working or continue to work and be further built upon..?

    Or are you breaking new ground on that ?

    I guess you haven't revealed what PC / windows-ish based control (system) software you might be using.


    3.

    Quote Originally Posted by Generic Default View Post
    The ease-of-use functionality that I mentioned is the next phase, with the concept being that operators just tap on a part icon that looks similar to what they want to create, then they edit the exact parameters to amend the "canned cycles" that would create such a part.

    ^^^ Honestly I think your McMaster-Carr idea / catalog of editable parts via a "decision tree" might be faster to develop and bring a "quick end to the war".

    I interpreted that as a faster development solution when your back is really against the wall to provide your customers with the functionality they are looking for ?

    Otherwise ~ Maybe license Sprutcam , they do some mill turn affordably ? become a licensed development partner and knock a hole / create extensions for their platfrom for your machine (maybe) ?

    __________________________________________________


    @GD at some point you have to figure out how to press the "easy button" in some instances and also figure out how (eventually) you are going to be able to come "Home" to the USA, (eventually/ long term) ? Otherwise you may end up going to first principals on everything -(ask me how I know lol :-) , :-( , :-/, :-) , ) -. where you may disappear for a long time when you might as well have gotten an advanced degree or something... More "life options" possibly ? Depending on your skillset.

  20. #713
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    Quote Originally Posted by Camputer View Post
    Man, I wonder how safe this thing is gonna be for his price point. I know we like to shit on some of the more annoying interlocks and stuff on the newer machines, but as experienced machinists most of us could figure out how to stay safe without them. With his target audience being makers who want to keep one of these in their garage to play with like a 3d printer, I just can't imagine a scenario where people don't get hurt. When I was in tech school I saw what happened when we would bring the engineering kids in for one quarter. It's not that they weren't smart, or they were overconfident, they just literally didn't think about how easily a manual lathe could rip their face off. Or how easily a circular sander could take your fingertips off (happened).

    There are just a lot of rules to this stuff that someone green doesn't even consider. I keep imagining a person putting some wildly out of balance saw cut piece of stock .100" into the collect and maxing out the spindle. Or reaching into the machine to measure something while the spindle is running, with long hair or a necklace. Is he going to have to carry a massive amount of insurance for this?
    No, he is going to include those safeties in his new cam software. He'll have vibration sensors* and AI with a video camera that won't let the machine start if you are doing something stupid.

    *PS, I know that currently exists on some machine tools, but it's not going on a $6k-10k-20k hobby machine.

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  22. #714
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dualkit View Post
    That place looks like nothing but a storage facility. I don't see a run of conduit anywhere. Looks like everything is now getting outsourced, another picture of a simple 3D printed part. I would be so curious as to what kind of "investors" would get duped into this? To say all this is moving at a snail's pace is an understatement.
    To be fair, I don't have any conduit in my shops either.

    Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by as9100d View Post
    To be fair, I don't have any conduit in my shops either.

    Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
    You have good cords, I hope......

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChipSplitter View Post
    You have good cords, I hope......
    We run cable tray or buss for everything. Conduit is for electricians to have job security.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Camputer View Post
    There are just a lot of rules to this stuff that someone green doesn't even consider. I keep imagining a person putting some wildly out of balance saw cut piece of stock .100" into the collect and maxing out the spindle. Or reaching into the machine to measure something while the spindle is running, with long hair or a necklace. Is he going to have to carry a massive amount of insurance for this?
    I keep thinking back to that Yale student who died when her hair got caught in a lathe. It was more than nine years ago, and it's still on my mind every time I have students using machines during weekends.

    Now have even less supervision and more people working alone...

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  27. #718
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    Quote Originally Posted by as9100d View Post
    To be fair, I don't have any conduit in my shops either.

    Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
    I doubt you are in an obvious metal building, without insulation, and open walls.

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  29. #719
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dualkit View Post
    I doubt you are in an obvious metal building, without insulation, and open walls.
    True lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by Generic Default View Post
    .....

    You should keep in mind that at some point in your life, things like inkjet printers were cutting edge tech that were expensive and limited to business use, requiring professionals to operate. Now you can go to Walmart and buy a cheap one for like 30$, and it works just fine. What I'm attempting to do is just miniaturize and consumerize one of the most capable types of CNC machines.
    Perhaps not the best comparison or thinking.
    Ink jet printers are sold at a loss. It is the Pez dispenser business model on steroids.


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