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Takisawa ts 4000 things to look out for?

plutoniumsalmon

Hot Rolled
Joined
May 27, 2014
Location
Los Angeles
Hello.

A few days ago I asked a question about doosan. This led me to Takisawa as I realized that for not much more money I could get a lot more machine. As such I would like, before committing, to know what you guys feel about this machine. How is the service, what are the issues. Is there anything I should look out for so on and so fourth. Why is it so much cheaper than anything out there with the same stats.


Thank you
 
With Yamazen that close by....a no brainer.

With the shit that happened with Doosan I'm wishing now we would have bought a Takisawa over my Lynx...
 
I have one, but haven't done much with it yet. It's a solid enough machine... but... how do I best explain it... rough? Everything is solidly built but the fit and finish isn't what you'd expect for a machine that costs what a house costs around here. Think russian, rather than german.

Service from yamazen is great usually, but at least in my neck of the woods they don't really have anyone familiar with the machines. A lot of techs came out to take a stab at it. The manual is brief, spotty and not particularly helpful. It comes with all the individual sub-manuals for each pump, drive, control, sensor, etc from the manufacturer, but nobody at Takisawa bothered to add that information to a systems manual. It feels like a collection of (admittedly pretty good) parts rather than a well engineered product.

In short, though the capacity is great and it isn't a bad machine, I really wish I'd bought another Okuma.
 
I have one, but haven't done much with it yet. It's a solid enough machine... but... how do I best explain it... rough? Everything is solidly built but the fit and finish isn't what you'd expect for a machine that costs what a house costs around here. Think russian, rather than german.

Service from yamazen is great usually, but at least in my neck of the woods they don't really have anyone familiar with the machines. A lot of techs came out to take a stab at it. The manual is brief, spotty and not particularly helpful. It comes with all the individual sub-manuals for each pump, drive, control, sensor, etc from the manufacturer, but nobody at Takisawa bothered to add that information to a systems manual. It feels like a collection of (admittedly pretty good) parts rather than a well engineered product.

In short, though the capacity is great and it isn't a bad machine, I really wish I'd bought another Okuma.


I know what you mean (in general) not specifically at Takisawa about the "fit and finish isn't what you'd expect for a machine that costs what a house costs around here" with regard to a lot of machine tools in general...

Here's a MSRP for various Ferrari's... Ferrari Reviews - New Ferrari Cars | Edmunds.com



Most of them around the $200K mark... So I am trying to talk myself into a DMG Mori NLX2500 MC|1250 list price is similar to the $ of a Ferrari...

It really seems that the machine tool industry is a different universe.
 
Hello.

A few days ago I asked a question about doosan. This led me to Takisawa as I realized that for not much more money I could get a lot more machine. As such I would like, before committing, to know what you guys feel about this machine. How is the service, what are the issues. Is there anything I should look out for so on and so fourth. Why is it so much cheaper than anything out there with the same stats.


Thank you

I wouldn't say that it is soooooo much cheaper than other machines with the same stats; All of them pretty much are within a certain price range or "band" but I think Takisawa made a conscious effort to beef up various components such as spindle drive/motor and driven tool HP and so on to make them stand out as good value per KW if you like (and be accurate and have good surface finishes). The machine's mass per linear inch compared to other machines that handle 8 to 10" chuck and roughly 29" inch between "Centers" is pretty damn good ... not the absolute best in class for mass/rigidity but definitely up there. I think to answer your question it seems that that is what TAKISAWA does... That's what they do :-) Every machine tool builder has a "Strategy" with a particular product line and that is Takisawa's...

The reason why I am possibly able to talk myself into a DMG Mori machine is basically I figured out the price per day of a five year lease/financing option for that machine versus a machine made in Korea or Taiwan. So a Korean MC or MCY or Taiwanese machine (a good one) works out about $80-$90 per day, the DMG Mori machine is about $100 to $110 per day. So I tend to resolve things using time. So if you are doing work, jobbing or whatever probably your rate is going to be of the order of $80 to $100/hour. So one hour of "labor" time /day to pay for the machine... (Our overheads and running costs are bootstrapped to other things going on that are not machine tool related). So not much difference really. So the question I ask myself which machine / company / vendor /support is going to grant me the greatest chance of success? In my case DMG Mori are very good at fielding dumbass questions from geeks like me, and the Mapps V control seems to be very intuitive and a good fit for how I think and do things (even on the Celos control). The machine seems to meet most of my technical requirements.

In your case plutoniumsalmon you have YAMAZEN in your back yard, and they seem absolutely committed to their customers to make everything work as best as it possibly can. So that seems like a no brainer as other's have been saying... assuming you like the machine and it's control and design and all that.
 
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Hello.

A few days ago I asked a question about doosan. This led me to Takisawa as I realized that for not much more money I could get a lot more machine. As such I would like, before committing, to know what you guys feel about this machine. How is the service, what are the issues. Is there anything I should look out for so on and so fourth. Why is it so much cheaper than anything out there with the same stats.


Thank you

I don't own one (yet) but I was probably the one who turned you onto them. During my due diligence I talked to everyone I could find and I didn't hear anything bad. What I did hear over and over was that Yamazen service is top notch, the best in the business. As far as the machine goes, I heard that Takisawa makes a lot of drop-in production lines for Japanese car companies and use many of their machines unaltered for those lines, and that the brand is a premium/workhorse brand akin to Okuma/Mori, etc.

It's a Fanuc control so that's about as generic as it gets - shouldn't be any major issues with control. The owners I talked to said they were solid and overbuilt machines.

As for service... good way to test might be to call up Yamazen and ask how soon you can get a service call on a machine you've bought - test them out and see how responsive they are. Don't be afraid to stop by their facility in Chicago (I think it's Chicago). That's where the machines ship out of. Take a look around and check out the fit/finish of the machines yourself. They do extended warranties if you're concerned.

Andy from Yamazen is a member here so hopefully he can chime in as well. I get the impression these guys are pretty open about the pros and cons of their machines so if whatever common issues are I believe they will disclose.
 
I recently ordered a Takisawa with gantry loader...due to take delivery in May so I'll let you know how THAT goes. I went with them because 1) I really like and trust the Yamazen salesman that sold me my Brother mill, 2) Yamazen is about 15 min from work and Takisawa is about 1 min from them and 3) Takisawa builds the gantry loader instead of dealing with some third party integrator. That doesn't help you out but a while ago for a different project I had it narrowed down to your machine and a comparable Mori. The Takisawa was cheaper by maybe 10% but the Mori seemed like a better machine. However - the salesman was a dope (i.e. Me - "so what's better about this machine than the Takisawa?" Salesman - "It's just awesome.") That being said I feel like a lot of the machines out there these days are very comparable and the after-the-sale service is what makes or breaks the deal more often for me. I don't want to name names but I bought another "good brand" machine not long ago and the install was so sloppy that I'll definitely look at other makes for the next one. I have not been able to find many "reviews" on Takisawas so I'm really trusting Yamazen on this one but so far they seem very meticulous on getting everything right for our application. Wish I already had mine so I could help you out.
 
Thank you SRT.

We are looking at it monday. Will report back. As far as service hats a good idea. Will try this out.

Will be curious to hear your results.

Something I like to consider when looking at machines is what kind of customer and user am I. What I mean is... I am technically very good with software, so I am 99% sure I can figure out any operational functions myself or by reading (even a bad) manual. If you're not experienced with Fanuc, then the ability to call and ask a programming question may be high on your list but wouldn't be on mine. I'm very concerned about running costs - I hear stories like the Haas DT-1's blowing spindles and Haas refusing to cover that.. I can't afford that kind of stuff so reliability and service speed and cost is important. If something DOES break I want it fixed quick and not to get bent over on the cost. Heard good things about Yamazen there too.

I find that making a list (because sometimes the things you think you care about you might not really and the things you really care about aren't the things you thought), then put the machine and dealer through their paces on those things. Get the salesman to make all their commitments in writing. If they say the machines never break, ask for their best price on an extended warranty - let them "show you the money" so to speak.

They were very willing to put me in touch with other shops with Takisawa machines they have installed in the area and let me talk to them, and I was welcome to go to the main office and look at the machines myself.

Keep in mind that the machine isn't generally yours until you sign off on it on your floor so that's a good time to check to make sure it doesn't leak coolant and all the tool setters and whatever else are all working (the tech should ensure this but double checking doesn't hurt).

If you're concerned about manuals you can ask to see them or if you worry about fit/finish you can check out a new machine undelivered on their floor, etc.


Please keep us posted- I am looking at the same machine and if you jump before I do I wanna know how the water ended up being :)))
 
I recently ordered a Takisawa with gantry loader...due to take delivery in May so I'll let you know how THAT goes. I went with them because 1) I really like and trust the Yamazen salesman that sold me my Brother mill, 2) Yamazen is about 15 min from work and Takisawa is about 1 min from them and 3) Takisawa builds the gantry loader instead of dealing with some third party integrator. That doesn't help you out but a while ago for a different project I had it narrowed down to your machine and a comparable Mori. The Takisawa was cheaper by maybe 10% but the Mori seemed like a better machine. However - the salesman was a dope (i.e. Me - "so what's better about this machine than the Takisawa?" Salesman - "It's just awesome.") That being said I feel like a lot of the machines out there these days are very comparable and the after-the-sale service is what makes or breaks the deal more often for me. I don't want to name names but I bought another "good brand" machine not long ago and the install was so sloppy that I'll definitely look at other makes for the next one. I have not been able to find many "reviews" on Takisawas so I'm really trusting Yamazen on this one but so far they seem very meticulous on getting everything right for our application. Wish I already had mine so I could help you out.

Can you please give me the model of the mori? Might as well look.
 
I can vouch for Yamazen's service being top notch. As an owner of a Takisawa (bought from Yamazen), I can also tell you that the machine is very reliable and rigid. I found the build quality to be pretty good, and didn't find any real issues with fit and finish. I have a TC-203J, so different models may have different fit and finishes.
 
They were very willing to put me in touch with other shops with Takisawa machines they have installed in the area and let me talk to them, and I was welcome to go to the main office and look at the machines myself.

Keep in mind that the machine isn't generally yours until you sign off on it on your floor so that's a good time to check to make sure it doesn't leak coolant and all the tool setters and whatever else are all working (the tech should ensure this but double checking doesn't hurt).


Hello.
I looked at the Takisawa today in a shop. Funny enough it was leaking a little bit of coolant because the spray was hitting one of the way covers. The machine was impressive. We also looked at the Genos 300 MY (the other possible choice). It was the showroom model and looks pretty nice too. I like the Okuma control more and the fact that even with the longer z axis travel L300E and with a few extras its 17k cheaper. But it is more cramped and a little slower as well as its coolant tank built in the casting. It also does not have a second spindle. So I guess I have a difficult choice to make.
 
I relocated a large Takisawa lathe. TG-6040 i think. It was built like a tank. Only issues was the owners had was it repeatedly would bend the hydraulic cylinder shaft for the drag and drop steady rest. I was very impressed by it.
 








 
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