Thoughts on gorilla mill

I was wondering if members here on PM had experience with gorilla mill endmills? The salesman stopped by last week with a gorilla mill catalog and I'm thinking about trying some. How good are they when compared to Garr and other endmills in that range? Are they expensive endmills?

We mostly use garr endmills for mill work. I know they aren't the best, but the majority of our work is lathe work, so we buy better tooling for the lathe and buy cheaper stuff for the mill since it isn't used as much.

Also, anybody have experience with garant endmills?

Any thoughts?

Thanks,

Chris

Some will love and others will like something else.
You will not know in your shop until you try.

A very decent company with very good product.
What you will get here is lots of I like XXX brand as it is so good.
You can take all that, pack in in 5 pound bag and have room left for 10 pounds of shit.
Your shop and ops are yours alone.
Bob

I never tried them or was tempted to. My reasoning on things like this is that if they were anything special they would not call them by gimmicky names like Gorilla mill, Yeti series, Baboon mill, etc. I think using this type of reasoning will save you a lot of investigative time in general. Maybe you are wrong sometimes, but on average I think the logic is a sound way to navigate the endless items thrown in front of you.

I've been using these for a couple of years now on Mazak mills and some turret lathes on the live tooling. We now have integrated them across our whole shop over time after I brought a book home from IMTS 2018. I have found them to be a fantastic product. If you read through the book and check out the feeds and speeds you can see they haul ass. They really last a good bit at those numbers too. The main product we use is the Yeti. It is cheaper than others due to the less complex grind with no chip breaker and I've found that the chip breaker on the Sasquatch and Knuckle Dragger cause wear anyway. We use the 1/2" and 3/8" sizes mostly and they always pay for themselves. Not uncommon for them to save me 5-10 minutes per cycle in steel and last 30 or so parts leaving me with 150 to 300 minutes at roughly $70 an hour shop time this means they double to quadruple the money they cost on a regular basis. The stuff they brag about that really is no bullshit would be the carbide they use and the coating. When they do fail they tend to break so clean that I pull the endmill out of the part with pliers with little effort and don't need to chisel out any carbide to save the part. The coating is said to be slightly harder than a TiAln coating at half the friction with a higher heat resistance. The low friction is why they get away with 850 SFM in 1018. They now have pricing and inventory listed on the website so you don't really need to bother with a rep to do the math but if you are using something like a Kennametal Harvi right now these tools offer the same speeds at about 1/3 the cost unless that sale Titans of CNC worked out is still going.
There tends to always be some kind of buzz in my shop talking about these things on what they did for this job or that.
Our big winner is a job we cut 4 minutes per part over inserted tooling and we make 100 per week year round and get no less than 300 parts on each tool.

TLDR. Kick-ass products that deliver on what they say out of an American Manufacturer. Read the book and take them on their word, no bullshit there.

cgrim3 said:

We mostly use garr endmills for mill work. I know they aren't the best,

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Garr is underrated because it's more affordable than other big name brands. I've used them for years along side Kennametal, OSG, etc... and to me they perform just as well.
Don't be fooled by the lower price tag.

Mtndew said:

Garr is underrated because it's more affordable than other big name brands. I've used them for years along side Kennametal, OSG, etc... and to me they perform just as well.
Don't be fooled by the lower price tag.

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Garr does make good stuff.

Wasn't there a thread started here a couple years back about Gorilla using cheap carbide for their end mills and guys were struggling to make them last? I remember using a couple back around that same time and they did, in fact, suck. I was green as could be back then so in retrospect I can't really say the end mills sucked so much as I did.

That said, I don't use 'em now because the schtick doesn't really go with me, but I know at least one shop that uses them exclusively and has had plenty of good things to say about them.

We use Helical end mills mostly and love them. The original folks that thought up Helical actually just branched off to do their own thing recently and that company is called Core. We've sampled some of those and they work really well also, and at a better price than the Helicals.

I think they are/were like the Monster brand endmills.*

Monster Tool | Home

Started (still is?) relatively cheap, and comparable to some other brands when you look at price-life ratio. Probably as good as any other "cheap" endmill.

And I am confused by the comment on Garr? I've always thought they were a premium brand.

*Looks like Monster has come quite a ways since they had the dragon/monster on their packages. Have not used them in years....

Gorilla does make really nice endmills, I would put them way ahead of Garr in performance, and slightly more money than Garr. I used Garr in the past, and for hard milling they are just adequate in my opinion.

Yeah I'm definitely thinking about trying the gorillas out. Also, it's not that garr is bad, it's that there are just so many better choices (emuge, guhring, hitachi, mitsubishi, etc). But garr is cheap and that's why I buy them. Commenting on Nagol's post, have you guys tried the kennametal harvi endmills? I hear all this hype about them and that they are better than sliced bread, but are they worth the price? Plus, kennametal annoys me. Not sure why, they just do. And the fact that Kennametal has Titan Gilroy doing their advertising really makes me not want to buy harvi endmills.

I have not tried the Harvi. I asked the purchasing guy if I could try a couple when Titan had the price the same as Gorilla and we decided there was no point since that price would shoot back up at some point. With the tool life I tend to get on the Gorillas there's like no way it could justify even double the price. Speeds and feeds on a Yeti are the same if not a touch faster so the Harvi needs to win in tool life. One thing Gorilla doesn't give numbers on is helical interpolation. I've been ramping them quite aggressive. Interpolating a 2XD diameter hole at 15% ramp with 50% feed they last quite well and that puts the hole generated in just a few seconds. Just thought I'd mention they ramp well since they don't say it and Harvi 3s are supposed to be pretty good at it. I really think the coating Gorilla has is something special. I've looked around as much as I can and it seems like most companies just use a TiAln coating and the high end coatings don't seem to compete. Guhring gives hardness and friction numbers on Firex and I believe it was weaker in all aspects. Sadly Kennametal doesn't give spec on their coating but again I find it hard to believe it could be much better. Word is Gorilla has some high performance chamfer mills on the way which I've been looking for. We asked our rep if they would put their coating on a couple MTC 6 flute carbide countersinks we use for chamfering and we sent them a 1/2" and two 3/8" tools. Turns out when Gorilla got them the rep wasn't supposed to say he could do that they said "It is not our policy to put our proprietary coating on competing tools but since he said we would we will do it this one time" So when I got these things I just hit them with Yeti SFM recommendations and 0.009 IPR and this puts them spinning about 3 times faster than I would have ran them before and a bit more feed and even still the tool life probably quadrupled. Pretty crazy to see the same tool with a good coating and the difference it can make. I was told they will have 3 and 5 flute basic chamfer mills and even 3 flute helical options. I've looked everywhere I can find and haven't yet seen any chamfer mills with anything but 0 degrees rake and axial cutting angles with basic coatings so I'm really looking forward to these.

I have to jump in on this one. Many of you know but some of you don't I sell tooling for a living for a tooling distributor. Gorilla Mill is one of my favorite brands to sell. I also sell Helical, Emuge, Iscar, Walter, Harvey. For the price Gorilla Mill is an excellent mid level product. They grind to the .001" for standard product that puts them in the category of Helical, Garr, SGS, Fullerton, Niagara.

The marketing I think is cool and unique. That's what they are going for and it gets peoples attention. I know and have met with the owner / marketing guy for Gorilla Mill a few times. His name is Kevin. His partner Mark came up with the design of variable helix and variable pitch. According to them at the time the top endmills Hanita & SGS Z Carb had one or the other not both.

To those who think it is a marketing gimmick with cheap product that's a mistake. Just because you have vanilla marketing from a brand that has been around for 80 years doesn't make a product good or still relevant. Just the way crazy attention-grabbing marketing doesn't make a tool good. I do see the hesitation with that line of thinking as a lot of look at me marketing is just that.

As to what tool is better is ENTIRELY dependent on what you are doing. Are you running a Bridgeport? Get the a generic brand 30 degree helix angle endmills. Are you roughing on a CNC CAT40 or more rigid spindle mill? Gorilla Mill is probably a very nice option. Are there better tools for roughing on the market? Yes! Are those endmills priced accordingly? Yes! Gorilla Mill to me is a nice performance at a mid level price. I sell a lot of different brands of WAY more expensive end mills that are worth every penny because they are specifically made for a certain material or process.

In terms of performance compared to Garr. I have replaced Garr at a handful of shops very easily with Gorilla Mill. However one of my better clients doesn't see much of a difference for what they do and Garr WAS cheaper so they stuck with them. Garr had a noticeable price increase last year that changed that, so we will see.

Garr is AWESOME at quick turn around modifications. Gorilla Mill can't compete with that as of now.

Helical I would say literally goes back and forth on who is better depending on the application. I have seen Gorilla Mill blow Helical away in full slotting applications and seen Helical blow Gorilla Mill with profile milling for 7 flute tools. To me Helical is becoming a little price prohibitive with their price increases but they are really cranking out innovations, they have a large variety of sizes and great stock so that costs money. Better to pay $5 more for an endmill than to wait 2 weeks so that make sense.

I know I am biased but hopefully my thoughts are interesting.

Nagol said:

I have not tried the Harvi. I asked the purchasing guy if I could try a couple when Titan had the price the same as Gorilla and we decided there was no point since that price would shoot back up at some point. With the tool life I tend to get on the Gorillas there's like no way it could justify even double the price. Speeds and feeds on a Yeti are the same if not a touch faster so the Harvi needs to win in tool life. One thing Gorilla doesn't give numbers on is helical interpolation. I've been ramping them quite aggressive. Interpolating a 2XD diameter hole at 15% ramp with 50% feed they last quite well and that puts the hole generated in just a few seconds. Just thought I'd mention they ramp well since they don't say it and Harvi 3s are supposed to be pretty good at it. I really think the coating Gorilla has is something special. I've looked around as much as I can and it seems like most companies just use a TiAln coating and the high end coatings don't seem to compete. Guhring gives hardness and friction numbers on Firex and I believe it was weaker in all aspects. Sadly Kennametal doesn't give spec on their coating but again I find it hard to believe it could be much better. Word is Gorilla has some high performance chamfer mills on the way which I've been looking for. We asked our rep if they would put their coating on a couple MTC 6 flute carbide countersinks we use for chamfering and we sent them a 1/2" and two 3/8" tools. Turns out when Gorilla got them the rep wasn't supposed to say he could do that they said "It is not our policy to put our proprietary coating on competing tools but since he said we would we will do it this one time" So when I got these things I just hit them with Yeti SFM recommendations and 0.009 IPR and this puts them spinning about 3 times faster than I would have ran them before and a bit more feed and even still the tool life probably quadrupled. Pretty crazy to see the same tool with a good coating and the difference it can make. I was told they will have 3 and 5 flute basic chamfer mills and even 3 flute helical options. I've looked everywhere I can find and haven't yet seen any chamfer mills with anything but 0 degrees rake and axial cutting angles with basic coatings so I'm really looking forward to these.

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Helical has helically fluted chamfer mills now that are really good. Not sure if they started it but a lot of people are producing similar chamfer mills. I am sure Gorilla Mill will make them well. I have also heard them discussing making high feeds soon. Gorilla Mill is a smaller company (than Harvey Performance who owns Helical) but they go head to head with Helical in terms of performance and target market.

Gorilla Mill coatings are excellent they call them GMX-35 & GMS2 but it's really AlCrNa with some extras from Balzers which is TOP of the line stuff. If you look you will see tooling coated with AlCrNa on the market but it is surprising to me that not everyone has made the jump from AlTiN to AlCrNa as it is better in everyway that I am aware of.

It's my opinion a lot of companies don't continuously strive to update or improve tool performance in this case coatings because they don't have to. They are doing just fine in their own eyes and meeting their sales goals etc. So we see many big name companies not really update coating but you see newer or smaller companies with unfamiliar or newer coatings as they have to take on the big guys to earn the business.

Sorry to revive an older thread. Just wanted to update. We have been using the gorilla mill and they are amazing. They freakin haul ass. We are also going to buy some of their threadmills for NPT and NPTF. Does anybody use gorilla mill thread mills?

I must say they are some of the sharpest endmills I've handled straight out of the box. Definitely sharper than the Garr endmills we buy.

Just curious, does anyone have experience with emuge endmills? We use their taps but have never used their endmills. Do you think they are worth the premium price? I looked on their website and see they have a 20 FLUTE ENDMILL!!!! That's insane!

I haven't tried them but looking quick at what they have it's all TiAln coatings which for me would be a no go. As I said in the other post, I'm pretty sure the Gorilla coating is what makes them kick ass. If you are still looking around check other peoples specs on whatever coating they are using. Gorilla coating isn't the hardest out there but the friction is very low so it's happy spinning really fast. As an update on the advice I received here I tried out the Helical brand chamfer mills. Coating seems like good stuff but I can't spin as fast as I would like to. In this application hardness gets me less than lack of friction so it may depend on what you are doing. I'll be making the jump to Gorilla chamfer mills when they come out. They were a big upgrade from the MTC uncoated ones I was using so it will be my choice for now.

I have limited experience with Emuge endmills but yes, they are top tier performance endmills and their price sure as hell reflects that. You can't go wrong with Emuge if your application calls for something like that.

I have been very tempted to pull the trigger on some of the accelerated finishing "Barrel" style finishing endmills for 5 axis contouring but I can't decide if I truly need that yet.

As I am constantly looking for primo tooling without breaking the bank, i may give Gorilla mills a try. Are there any other brands that are recommended that compete on the same level as Helical/Harvey? Maybe a little more expensive is fine if the performance reflects the price increase.

Thanks!

metalmadness said:

I have limited experience with Emuge endmills but yes, they are top tier performance endmills and their price sure as hell reflects that. You can't go wrong with Emuge if your application calls for something like that.

I have been very tempted to pull the trigger on some of the accelerated finishing "Barrel" style finishing endmills for 5 axis contouring but I can't decide if I truly need that yet.

As I am constantly looking for primo tooling without breaking the bank, i may give Gorilla mills a try. Are there any other brands that are recommended that compete on the same level as Helical/Harvey? Maybe a little more expensive is fine if the performance reflects the price increase.

Thanks!

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For barrel mills, circle segment, and lens cutters, give Hoffmann Group's house brand GARANT a try. They're just a touch more than half the cost of the same geometries from Emuge or Fraisa. Much lower barrier way to try them out.

Don’t put it in your hair.

Booze Daily said:

Don’t put it in your hair.

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Or better yet do put it in your hair. Play the victim and cry about some vague racism then get a free operation to fix your own mess and get paid handsomely by suckers who’ll buy anything.

Yep, worth it