thoughts on kitamura machines? - Page 3
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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by empwoer View Post
    clear out your PM box
    Thanks man... Will do .

    BTW do you know which MTBs and machine tool vendors are exhibiting ?

    I see a lot of awesome metrology stuff, and fixtures , tooling and a ton of high tech stuff and even "Block chain " talks (face palm / good luck.). So LA convention... I'll look more closely when I find time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cameraman View Post
    Some of these trade shows I find a bit overwhelming, feeding frenzy / zoo environment, but looks like a good one / fun!
    IMTS is a joke if you want to try and dive deep on anything meaningful. Way too much to see. Way too many people at the big booths.

    If you want a meaningful trade show, check out some of the open houses during the "odd-years." Gosiger puts on a very nice open house show in Dayton Ohio. The Mazak show is pretty interesting too. It's nice to have nearly *all* of the company's tech personnel on-hand at those events, as you can dive down deeper at the smaller shows.

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  4. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jashley73 View Post
    IMTS is a joke if you want to try and dive deep on anything meaningful. Way too much to see. Way too many people at the big booths.

    If you want a meaningful trade show, check out some of the open houses during the "odd-years." Gosiger puts on a very nice open house show in Dayton Ohio. The Mazak show is pretty interesting too. It's nice to have nearly *all* of the company's tech personnel on-hand at those events, as you can dive down deeper at the smaller shows.
    I disagree. IMTS is where you can look at all the machines. You just need to make a plan and give yourself time. Like three days.

    The problem with WESTEC and some other small shows, is the cost is not worth the expense from our side. We did WESTEC the last 3 times and we one just a few vendors showing. You could look at all the machines in about an hour of time. We are passing this time as are most of the distributors.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2outof3 View Post
    I disagree. IMTS is where you can look at all the machines. You just need to make a plan and give yourself time. Like three days.

    The problem with WESTEC and some other small shows, is the cost is not worth the expense from our side. We did WESTEC the last 3 times and we one just a few vendors showing. You could look at all the machines in about an hour of time. We are passing this time as are most of the distributors.
    I was wondering (as to empwoer's requirements ) how many MTB's and respective vendor's would be exhibiting .

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2outof3 View Post
    I disagree. IMTS is where you can look at all the machines. You just need to make a plan and give yourself time. Like three days.

    <snip>
    As far as Jashley's notion of deep dive , I found the West Coast "open house" for MAZAK to be really good.

    I could sketch out parts and they could build them on the control (For Integrex i200) and I even had a chance to look at more specific customer parts (up stairs) to how their application's guys really solved some interesting and relevant problems.

    On the other hand it's a little deceptive as you have to figure out which staff has come from where exhibiting specific machine lines.

    They had "peeps" from East Coast and Kentucky also pulling on the West Coast event.

    But over all less frenetic and able to dig deep on applications issues. More time / "Prospect" .

    The work holding and tooling is less extensive than IMTS or similar events but you also get to see what they think is relevant.

    I liked the HAINBUCH stuff, nice!

  7. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2outof3 View Post
    I disagree. IMTS is where you can look at all the machines. You just need to make a plan and give yourself time. Like three days.

    The problem with WESTEC and some other small shows, is the cost is not worth the expense from our side. We did WESTEC the last 3 times and we one just a few vendors showing. You could look at all the machines in about an hour of time. We are passing this time as are most of the distributors.
    i could see how it might be difficult to justify the cost as a vendor. thankfully its only an hr drive for us and no cost.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cameraman View Post
    I was wondering (as to empwoer's requirements ) how many MTB's and respective vendor's would be exhibiting .
    we dont really have any requirements for westec, its a no brainer for us to visit as we're only an hour away, so we're just going out there to see whats what. first machine show we've gone to.

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  10. #48
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    back to the original question - I am running/setting up an HX-500iG. It's... meh. It has impressive specs, but I am not sure how much it reflects in the actual output. We shall see. It is claimed to be crazy accurate, and maybe it will prove to be. It has a 4-stage gearbox and 20k spindle.

    The things I dislike about it:
    -Took 3-4 weeks to get set up. Not my concern since I am not the owner but not what I am used to
    -It came with the 10 pallet changer, but only 8 stations are usable since it unloads from the machine into one location and requires one free for loading in/out of the machine.
    -The pallet changer is glacially slow. I guess it's just how it is with big pallets, but not optimal
    -The tool changer is fast *if* the tool is pre-staged. The 200 tool changer (which this has) is the standard 50 tools plus 150 in an auxiliary changer. It takes 20+ seconds to get a tool from the add-on changer into the main one and ready to change. So you need to always pre-stage your tools, which works fine but you don't always have 30+ seconds cycle on any given tool. Imagine drilling/tapping/countersinking one hole. Sure, you usually will have 4 sides on the pallet but you can't always have that.
    -You have to put your pre-stage T number down your code after you're already cutting, otherwise the machine will change tools and then pre-stage the next tool (while the axes stay motionless) and then it will start cutting. Modifying your post to put your pre-stage command after you start cutting is a huge pain in the ass.
    -The worst part is the control. I like Mitsu controls, so I don't know why Kitamura decided to do the worst of both worlds... a Fanuc skinned control on top of a Mitsubishi hardware machine. Fanuc is the worst for confusing layouts and unnecessary menus. Just try loading a program from a USB card to the control, it's about 10 steps and tons of button pushes. There is no "copy to control" command where the programs all show up. It's always a hassle. Always. The control has crashed a couple of times (well, the Arumatik interface has crashed) and dropped me out to the Mitsubishi side. Hard to get back to Arumatik unless you know a few tricks.
    -The machine is an absolute guzzler of fluids... way lube and coolant. Coolant gets all over the pallets and dries while they're in the pool, guess there isn't much of a way around that but still an expense.
    -It is physically HUGE for it's travels. The pallet pool must be 16+ feet diameter circle, the machine is about the same.
    -I find it tough to set up due to it being so slow. Loading a bunch of tools takes a while. Loading new parts into pallets takes time (unload pallet, bring to workstation, load into wait area, load into machine). Takes a while.
    -The pallets sometimes get out of sync. If a pallet change fails (interlock error or something), you have to go in and reset the parameters and/or manually move pallets around to re-orient things. Takes a while and overly complicated. I haven't figured out the circumstances exactly of when it happens, still working on that.

    The proof will be in the pudding if the machine turns into a beast making parts. I hope so... it's a pain in the ass to set it up.

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  12. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by SRT Mike View Post
    -The machine is an absolute guzzler of fluids... way lube and coolant. Coolant gets all over the pallets and dries while they're in the pool, guess there isn't much of a way around that but still an expense.
    Only point I can directly address: Would something like a Lang chip fan help with that? I know it would add a little cycle time, but depending on your priorities, it could be worth it to save the cost of the coolant?


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