Thread Tapping Sensing

[cajordan]

Hello,

I'm on a project team for a class in school and I have an idea for our project to help mitigate the issue of breaking taps. My idea is to create an adapter that goes between a CNC machine tool head and the tool holder that monitors the stress in the tap. If the tap approaches tensile strength, remove the tap from the part to avoid breakage.

Do you guys who spend time in shops/large CNC facilities think this would be useful/beneficial/would actually use this product?

Any insight/advice would be helpful!

Thanks,
Caroline

 

[rklopp]

This can be done without a sensor, by monitoring spindle current or power. The alarm level is mostly set by experience, not by plugging in a tensile strength value. Tensile strength is not the right parameter anyway.

 

[Larry Dickman]

it would be a solution looking for a problem.

 

[michiganbuck]

A torque wrench design would work but the lack of one suggest the market place does not need one. Proper drill size often makes taps go a very long life...
But good thinking there are plenty of inventions not yet invented.

 

[hanermo]

Yes !
No ..

Real answer.
It is possible to make a tiny dirt-cheap sensor that calibrates to the tap, and then reacts fast when the tap is about to fail.

It is not technically hard, imo, when e.g. one is used to making 70 ops per ms.
Likewise, it is very likely the imminent failure of the tap may/can be detected 1-2-3 revolutions before the actual break.

I suspect Your expectations are for bandwidth 10-50x too low, and for funding and costs 10-500x too low.
And the fast-blow controlled electronic clutch, at 2-4 ms, mechanical, may not have been fully costed or evaluated or resourced.

I´m 95% certain it can be done.

Not to make it, to actually profit from it.
"Licensing" or "selling the rights" would probably have about 1% chance of breaking even at best, and much less at actual profits.

I don´t doubt You or some/one can make it.
One of.


A real good tapping widget would be much better, if it actually works.
200-400k annual sales would be easy, first years or so.

Thats a 80M$ market within the first few years.
If You want.
If You can deliver and market and sell it.

--
Within 3 years of sales the chinese will copy/clone your product, and a lot of the potential market will like their low-cost zero-support pricing.

98% of all good ideas here and elsewhere disappear.
This is normal.
If You think You are different and Your product is different, then You will let me/us know as You see fit.

 

[13engines]

There are already adjustable torque control tap holders that have been around for many years. I think they handle most if not all of the problem(s) you're trying to solve for.

Dave

 

[Vancbiker]

I'm sure that some would find it a useful product. The integration of the tap "about to break signal" to the CNC control will be a big part in determining the usefulness. A tapping cycle that is looking for the signal to then stop and reverse short of the programmed depth and then stop execution of the CNC program does not exist in current mainstream CNCs. A macro could be written to monitor the CNC skip signal and a G31 command then used to feed the tap. That unfortunately would preclude using the "rigid tapping" function that most folks use for tapping. You would need to collaborate with many CNC control manufacturers if you wanted a tight integration of your signal to abort the current hole and stop further CNC program execution while rigid tapping.

 

[doug8cat]

Cajo, I commend your creative thinking, but it is a slippery slope. Case and point I just I just posted a thread in fab / welding forum about learning to TIG weld with the intent of asking all the real pros here to give me suggestions on said subject. Worked great, it was like getting all the good stuff from a lot of VERY skilled and knowledgeable guys.
When you think of a good I idea, check around cause 95% of the time you missed the boat, some bloke has already done it. Heed Larryd's advice.

I will try and keep this short.
Learning TIG is challenging, feed filler, watching puddle, monitor arc, on & off the pedal. Being a bit long in the tooth I knew I was going to have rough time. So driving home I came up an idea lets feed filler with a 'mechanical Pencil fashioned device.". All excited I came to find, yup someone has already done it. Moral of the long diatribe; research your new idea and do not over complicate things start very simple, like cardboard, tape and chewing gum. If it seems possible and know one has done it, then start your R & D, make a proof of concept model, then start moving forward.
I say all this cause I am a lot like you, come with what you think is great idea (quiet possible),and find it done, but do your research first. Has it been done, attempted and failed. Even if it has been done maybe you can improve on it, go on flea bay, allie express and Amazon. see what is out their. If your proof of concept worked and if their is not a device out their already then move on.
If it has and you think you think you can make better, then order a few the devices and try them out. If they work then start thinking how can I possibly make this better or cheaper. If it has not been done, then man maybe your on to something.
As has been mentioned if you do come to a point where you got a working prototype that is financially do able, then knock off a few and give 'em to friends and collogues get feed back.
Apologies I went off in the OT rhubarb.
But I hope at something in my rambling helps.
Cheers

 

[plastikdreams]

Wouldn't this be an electric form of a tapmatic?

 

[TeachMePlease]

Look at 3PM: 3PM Technologies

and Caron Engineering: Tool Monitoring Adaptive Control - TMAC - Caron Engineering

And see if your product would provide any benefits over what they offer. The only possible benefit I could see such a device offering would be a lower price than their products, but it would be less useful, too.

Good idea though, keep thinking like that.

 

[lastrada]

Not exactly tapping, but check out the spike sensory tool holder:

YouTube

YouTube