Through-spindle coolant: To TSC or not to TSC

Hey folks,

When is it appropriate to use through-spindle coolant? When is it not?

I just read about a fella who swore having TSC going through his shell mill for facing was the greatest thing since digital read out. I asked Frank Mari about it, and he said it's not common with shell mills and I wouldn't want to use coolant cutting steel anyways (at least for the most part). I've heard great things about him and his tools, so I trust him.

Some folks have said it's only effective in a production environment for big holes in aluminum. Others say it's more trouble than it's worth. So what's the scoop?

Most of my work will be in A36 and soft steels. I have a TSC spindle but no pump, and I'll need to cover the top so I don't soak the roof. My hope is to see whether it's really worth the effort or just turn the feature off so someone doesn't accidentally press the button.

Is there a comprehensive guide to when and why to use TSC?

We have 2 Haas mills with 300 psi TSC, we're a high mix/low volume job shop. I'd say its a nice to have if you have the money, but I can say I very rarely use it.

I agree with Frank, I tried it on shell mills when I first got it and all it did was make a bunch of mist. I think a higher flow and/or higher psi system would be more helpful. Only time I really use it is allied spade drills, and it barely has enough for that. It works very well through an ER collet for spiral cutting a slot with an end mill, blows the chips out instead of recutting. I've tried it on some deep pockets with indexable cutters, doesn't really have enough power to blast the chips out.

So I guess deep drilling would be the main use for it. I have yet to try a solid carbide through coolant drill, every time I look it up the cost is not worth it for the quantity we use. In production I'm sure it would be.

I used TSC on everything I could possibly get it on, it was better in every circumstance than the normal coolant jets. It does help a lot to have the ER collets with the sealed nut, and EM holders with the coolant nozzles in the nose. I do agree, though, that it's not as effective on the larger diameter tools, the 4" shell mill was questionable. The regular coolant nozzle wasn't much better though, I ended up drilling a retention screw and just using the TSC to dump coolant down the center and flood it from the inside.

One of the tools I wish I could have gotten was HSS drills with coolant passages, it would have helped immensely on the larger parts with 30-40 deep holes to avoid pecking.

I have 1000 PSI TSC. I always use coolant; TSC when possible, but I'm always cutting 17-4 and Ti. It really helps when drilling 2mm holes 1/2" or more deep. Even just milling (HFM) it really helps blast the chips out of the way.

With a good coolant mist system on the machine, I'd use TSC wherever possible. On the other hand, I'd also factor in potential repair/replacement of the coolant union, so may not use it over ~6K RPM or so.

Even if I wasn't going to use it myself (but I do!) I would
get it for resale value.

I've skipped buying machines that didn't have it and if you have ever used drills with coolant holes then you would never want to not use them

Once you've used thru spindle coolant with a big insert drill you're never going to be the same again. They are amazing, and the process reliability is through the roof. You can even do a good bit with a medium pressure unit, especially with bigger drills in say 3D holes or less. I started out with a higher volume (8-12 gpm?) 220-ish psi capable unit and had great luck with it all the way down to 10mm carbide going 2" deep in 1020 cold rolled. If I remember correctly I get 64 of those holes done in about 4 1/2 minutes. Of course no pecking. I believe I've gotten at least 1500 or more holes out of that drill. It's still cutting, but breaking down now at the very tip of the cutting edges, so am planning on replacing it next time the job comes around. That YG Dream Drill ran about $87.00. Held in a ER32 collet chuck with sealed collet.

I've since switched to 1000 psi, but hardly ever run it all full pressure. No need until you get smaller drills and deeper holes.

Don't forget that with thru spindle coolant, you can also start running gun drills in your VMC, which opens up a whole new realm of possibilities. Though with gun drills you will need the 1000 psi unit.

Plan on the cost of a de-mister unit while you're at it. I started out without one and won't do that again. Was running that job described above. Girlfriend showed up and said wow look at that. I finally looked up, and the entire shop looked like the tropics with a cloud layer throughout.

You will definitely need to completely enclose your machine or your coolant will get everywhere.

Like others have said it's also great for blasting chips out of cavities.

Pressure unit plus demister equals some thousands, even in the used market. Be ready for that. Plus a bunch of wiring, plumbing and venting.

Dave

I have mixed feelings on this, I have a Doosan DNM 5700 with 230 psi TSC and I do a lot of big aluminum bars with dozens of holes each.
For shallow holes 5xD or less, I haven't seen any benefit to TSC tools. I bought some Maritool cobalt HSS stub drills and I do 40 ipm plunges an inch deep without pecking using 5mm, 6mm, 6.8mm, and 8.4mm drills. So far I haven't had any problems with chip evacuation or welding, these stub drills have never gummed up in 6061. These are fairly cheap drills, I bought them because I figured I would practice with them to avoid breaking expensive carbide but I have yet to break one or wear one out. I'm pushing the 5mm drill at about twice the recommended feed per rev, and it just does it reliably for thousands of holes.

I use ER25 and ER32 collet holders with the TSC for 8mm and 10.8mm drills that need to go deeper. For some reason, the 10.8mm drill will get the flutes jammed with aluminum after more than 1.25" deep or so. I run it at 12,000 RPM and 90-120 IPM. I have had to start pecking with it in deeper holes to prevent aluminum welding, which kind of ruins the whole point of TSC.

I also have a big 2" indexable drill with the same problem. The TSC coolant blasts the chips out of the hole most of the time, but when it starts getting deep, the chips can jam up in the flutes of the big drill and double the spindle load briefly before I stop the program and pull out. It has been a real production bottleneck. I spent a lot of money on the drill and the TSC for this specific part, and it simply doesn't work as expected. The machine has TSA (through spindle air) but I haven't used it on a part yet. I think it's supposed to be better for blowing steel chips out but it may not cool aluminum enough like coolant does.

I guess overall I'd say it's nice to have for some things, but incredibly disappointing when I need it most. Here are a few of my large parts where you can see TSC versus regular drilling. Skip around until you see the drilling.

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Generic Default said:

I have mixed feelings on this, I have a Doosan DNM 5700 with 230 psi TSC and I do a lot of big aluminum bars with dozens of holes each.

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Nt that I'm a TSC expert, but 230PSI almost sounds like the results of hooking up a standard flood coolant pump to a rotary union at the top of the spindle. I don't know how Doosan stuff works, but the Speedio Mafia has good results throwng Daytona pumps on TSC prep equipped machines for less than $600 and getting great results. Limitation for us is overpressure on the TSC during tool changes limits us to 430 PSI (less the extra pressure in the line blow tools out of the turret fingers).

You also need to ask if you are working Horizontally or Vertically.

Drilling, ALL Drilling is a no-brainer, every time all the time, without exception.

Lathes are different because the chips are subject to centrifugal force, so yes for that. But not so much if the bore is on a HMC, easy to get chips out of there with regular flood.

A Facemill is just going to fling the coolant where it isn't wanted (the enclosure).

IME the most useful thing TSC is for, is flushing chips, NOT cooling anything.

R

I use it all the time, on about everything, including facemills. Caveat on that is that I don't have fast spindles (8k rpm) so I don't know how bad it would vapourise at higher speeds.

Regarding facemilling without coolant - it's a double edged sword. Carbide inserts in steel milling applications almost always last longer cutting dry. However, when you are working with large parts and the tool spends a lot of time engaged, it's just not viable to run dry as the heat builds up in the tool body. TSC works better than flood because it is more reliable at clearing the chips away from the cutter rather than flushing them under the cutter, so you get a more reliably good surface finish.

If you do a lot of high feed milling in steel, deep pockets for example, TSC is a must have. Air blast is a decent alternative, but the same caveat about the tool heating up applies.

Do not do as Generic has done and spec an inadequate pump. 300psi is the absolute minimum for useful TSC. When working with big tools (with big/many coolant ports) you need high flow rate as well as high pressure.

The carbide Guhring drill we use require high pressure TSC. I encourage you to go by the tooling recommendations from your rep and if you don't work with reps then you should. It is free advice.

gregormarwick said it perfectly on post # 12.

Common sence should be used when deciding what tools should be used with coolant thru and when to use just flood or even no coolant at all.

Are you putting a .010 chamfer on a part after some profiling. Part already has some coolant on it from previous operations. I run it dry. Do you really think flood or TSC will help? Drilling a .250 diameter hole 5/16 deep. Pretty darn sure flood coolant will be just as effective as TSC. Drilling .125 diameter 1-1/2 inches deep, TSC is a lifesaver and way more effective than flood.

The point is, turning on TSC or even flood coolant is not for free. Rotary unions wear out. Uneeded mist is created. Pump wear, contactors wear, etc.

One important point to consider is that the TSC couplings are a maintenance item, if they go bad they can flood your gear box with coolant and cause all kinds of damage.

Generally speaking....I use it every chance I get. I would not use it on an inserted facemill.....I would use air blow.....air blow through spindle I would use on a facemill.
If you have certain drill diameters you use regularly .....get some through coolant drills and you will not regret it. They are spendy.......but per hole and cycle time difference they are a decent buy until someone pile drives one into a part. YG has a decent performing through coolant drill at a decent price. Dont get all cheap on the holder / collet though....if you are gonna do that then go ahead and just disable it. You want a collet that completely blocks the coolant from going anywhere except through the tool........
Late thought.....you will need a high pressure pump for that...especially as you get smaller diameter drills....
I normally dont worry about wearing things out by using them......people put way to much thought into such things. Most stuff stops working from age as often as being over used. I worked with a guy who turned rapid travel down to 50% claiming that 100% was twice as hard on the machine.....reminded me of the scene in Spinal Tap......"But our amps go to eleven"....

toolsteel said:

I normally dont worry about wearing things out by using them......people put way to much thought into such things.

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We just pulled the TSC coupling off a mill last week that had destroyed itself, they wear out whether you use them or not. However if it fails and you use it or while you use it, especially running lights out, shit will go south real quick. Its just something that needs to be inspected periodically.

TheTalman1 said:

We just pulled the TSC coupling off a mill last week that had destroyed itself, they wear out whether you use them or not. However if it fails and you use it or while you use it, especially running lights out, shit will go south real quick. Its just something that needs to be inspected periodically.

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This is not true!! Some machines have carbide washers that are engaged with an air cylinder only when TSC is used.

fmari --MariTool- said:

This is not true!! Some machines have carbide washers that are engaged with an air cylinder only when TSC is used.

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On our Okuma at least it isn’t the rotary union that wears out quickly it’s a $600 tube with face o-ring and that is consumed whether you’re using the TSC or not.

fmari --MariTool- said:

This is not true!! Some machines have carbide washers that are engaged with an air cylinder only when TSC is used.

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Not true meaning there are exceptions and different designs, sure, as there's always going to be. I am sure however that its not a failure proof system. I am simply making the point that TSC while great (I love it, I use it when I can) is not without its risks and increased maintenance costs, which one should be aware of when making a purchase. Not advocating for or against it, just stating some of the risks.