Thru-tool coolant always better than flood?
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    Default Thru-tool coolant always better than flood?

    I've been replacing retention knobs for face and shoulder mills to allow coolant to go through spindle. Flood coolant is currently being used in every facing and shoulder milling operation on our HMC's. Material is cast iron, case-hardening steel and stainless steel, which tend to stick to inserts. Are there any reasons NOT to use thru tool coolant?

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    Through-spindle coolant: To TSC or not to TSC
    Through-spindle coolant: To TSC or not to TSC

    EDIT: Gosh I didn't mean to kill the vibe... My lack of comment goes with my lack of experience, as every machine I've worked on that has TSC either doesn't get used or is 100% necessary for the operation, such as lathe stuff. Never mind an HMC. Hopefully the attached thread helps.
    Last edited by thunderskunk; 07-13-2019 at 08:13 PM.

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    I never did use through tool on facemills or anything that would be heavy cutting.
    #1 reason was for the BBT30 machines - pull studs are tiny and with a hole in there just makes them weaker...
    #2 reason was for the BT40 machines - pull studs are bigger but with a hole in there...
    But all machines were upgraded pumps and it was like machining with a fire hose pointing at the cutter. So not only plenty cool tool, but also no swarf there for back cutting the chips as it was all blown away.

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    Sorry to start another thread, time to learn to use the search!

    #1 reason was for the BBT30 machines - pull studs are tiny and with a hole in there just makes them weaker...
    #2 reason was for the BT40 machines - pull studs are bigger but with a hole in there...
    I have thought of this. However I have never heard of BT50 (the taper in our machines) pull-stud breakage even with a hole in it. It could happen during heavy roughing with an endmill but I highly doubt it is possible with facemills.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 316head View Post
    I've been replacing retention knobs for face and shoulder mills to allow coolant to go through spindle. Flood coolant is currently being used in every facing and shoulder milling operation on our HMC's. Material is cast iron, case-hardening steel and stainless steel, which tend to stick to inserts. Are there any reasons NOT to use thru tool coolant?
    Depending on your coolant and your setup, TSC can cause foaming of the coolant. If your tank isn’t big enough to allow enough time for settling, it can result in several problems - cavitation in your coolant pump, coolant (foam) overflowing out of your tank or machine, coolant starvation, coolant / foam being drawn out by your chip conveyor - the list goes on...

    Water quality and mineral content can also play a part in foaming...

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    For 50 taper - I wouldn't worry about the strength, but 40 taper and smaller - there just aint much meat in there to use it in a roughing app.

    With that said - I just pulled a face mill off the other day - only to find a string in each of the holes, presumably pushed in from the cut.
    But I'm sure that I wasn't running TSC on that tool, so - would it have pushed a chip up there with coolant going through?
    prolly.....


    I might run TSC on an endmill, but not likely on a face mill.




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    Quote Originally Posted by barbter View Post
    I never did use through tool on facemills or anything that would be heavy cutting.
    #1 reason was for the BBT30 machines - pull studs are tiny and with a hole in there just makes them weaker...
    This isn't so cut and dry. One can argue in certain overload conditions the retention knob with the hole will be more resistant to cracking and then as a result breaking. Many time a crack starts in the center, if you remove the center ( like a cars driveshaft) less chance of cracking. So yes and no, hard to say.

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    Regarding TSC and face mills, we have been running TSC through our face mills for years on a CAT40 Haas, and it works "ehh" for roughing. We'll run 120-150% spindle load on our VF-2ss with those face mills, and no issues with the hollow pull studs. This is in 6061 and 7075. Flood coolant works better, but sometimes it just won't reach where you need it.

    It completely sucks for finishing though. Just like anything else with TSC, when you have a face mill going 8000 RPM, the coolant just flings out radially and misses the cutting zone completely.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fmari --MariTool- View Post
    This isn't so cut and dry. One can argue in certain overload conditions the retention knob with the hole will be more resistant to cracking and then as a result breaking. Many time a crack starts in the center, if you remove the center ( like a cars driveshaft) less chance of cracking. So yes and no, hard to say.
    True but you can also argue the other way...

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    Quote Originally Posted by 316head View Post
    Thru-tool coolant always better than flood?
    In this line of work, there rarely is anything that is always better than something else.
    It's all situational.

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    Quote Originally Posted by barbter View Post
    True but you can also argue the other way...
    Sure, but I make tool holders and retention knobs for a living.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fmari --MariTool- View Post
    Sure, but I make tool holders and retention knobs for a living.
    Not taking that away from you for one second there Frank.

    But back to driveshafts - you're surely talking torsion loads here? Where pull studs are 99% tension?
    With a bit of bending if the holder gets twatted side on?
    Taking meat out the centre (holes) is related to the second moment of area, so if you take out half the volume, I believe you don't remove half the strength (only a 1/4)? I'd have to dig my books out and do some calcs as it's a few years ago now...

    So for pure strength (in tension), I feel happier with solid pullstuds purely because there's more "meat" in there so effectively their stronger "like for like".
    Predominantly talking BBT30 here of course.


    Edit: back In the day (1999) I worked at a place and we had 2 brand new VMCs lose their spindles through holders rubbing the ally components. Only a slight rub and during "steady feed" (operators were proving out so overrides would have been down knowing them both) but it broke both pull studs.
    These were solid, and looking at them they looked very crystalline, but also it looked like they had torn ie if you put them in your fingers, and twisted one end, they sheared with a bit of twist in there. Probably because the spindle was running at 12krpm both times I guess?

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    I run a 4" face mill 8000 RPM in aluminum, I can't say that the TSC is hitting the inserts, but I can say that flood is not. The wind generated from the face mill makes an air curtain that prevents the flood from getting to the insert. The Ingersol face mill I use has 8 octagon inserts and each insert has a coolant hole angled to shoot the coolant on the cutting edge. It seems to help finish, it may be just helping carry the chip away, not sure. This is in a CAT 50 Mazak horizontal so I am not worried about the stud.

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