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02-22-2021, 08:25 PM #21
A lot has changed since 2012, a lot of what was once made in the US in 2012 is now made abroad.
You might like your made in the US endmills inserts etc, but the raw material and blanks likely come from China. CarbideBob could put better than an educated guess as to Chinese content.
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02-22-2021, 08:29 PM #22
Yeah I know most of the raw material blanks come from overseas and mostly from China. I am not happy about it. But what else am I to do. In terms of processing the raw materials and producing tooling, we like to support local/US companies (Garr, Gorilla mill, balax taps, etc)
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02-22-2021, 08:55 PM #23
Given that the cnc machine tools used are the same and running the same program is a grind in China not as good as ground in the USA on a catalog item?
Yes I hate competition in inserts and form tools but that the game.
For sure lots of low quality shops out there in there in China and in the USA.
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02-22-2021, 08:57 PM #24
They don't even put MRR numbers up in that video! They have no idea MRR is the only thing that matters in roughing! Well that and cycle time which leads to another point. Whats faster, 2 cuts at 100ipm or one cut at 50ipm?... the cut at 50 is faster since you didnt have to retract and reposition for a second cut! All they do is max the RPM and feed and say look how fast we are cutting!
Another point, how much hp/torque do you think that machine has at max RPM? How much more do you think it has 75% of max RPM? Reducing the RPM while increasing the stepover would probably keep the spindle load relatively the same while increasing the MRR. Increasing the stepover while reducing the feedrate to minimize the number of cuts needed would also reduce the cycle time...but like I said, high RPM and Feedrates is what gets clicks on YouTube I guess.
Oh, nice link to the 'world record'. Did you notice they used a Seco tool for that!
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02-22-2021, 09:31 PM #25
I like to support American jobs in America where human lives are valued, quality is paramount (at least in most shops I think), and ethics are valued. What I don't like to support is Communist China and their desire to become the world's next great super power, especially by becoming the world's manufacturing hub. Are we going to be reliant on Chinese manufacturing for our next war effort with whatever country we go to war with? This is nothing but bad news for the US.
I was watching a documentary on why China has the most bullet trains in the world (>20,000km of track) compared to the US that has none. It seems great and advanced but there is more to the story. These same concepts applies to this conversation here on PM.
1. The Chinese government owns most of the land in China so it doesn't have to buy up land (imminent domain) from private home owners, unlike in the United States, so it can build a bullet train for cheaper. Plus if the Chinese government needed your land, they wouldn't buy it; they would just take it. The government owns everything and the people are at the mercy of its government. The Chinese government even has oversight/distant control over the factories that are supposed to be owned by private businesses....cough cough kennametal. (Think of the Chinese government putting in backdoors into computer electronics i.e. Huawei, Lenovo)
2. With the extremely cheap forced/slave labor China has at its disposal, it can build a train for pennies on the dollar compared to here. I mean look at Nike, Apple, Amazon, and Adidas sweatshops. Paying children and unskilled peoples pennies on the dollar to work in conditions that would be illegal here in the US.
3. Environmental restrictions are virtually nonexistent there, so they don't have to worry about building and working to an environmental code like here in the US.
So yeah, saying we have this technology and that technology compared to the rest of the world sounds great and all, but ask how they got it in the first place. Off the backs of the Chinese people and the rest of the world (via cyberattacks), just to try to become the next world superpower.
And don't get me started on the 80,000 factories that left the US to go to places like China for cheaper wages and cheaper manufacturing.
We need to buy American & Made in America...or else we fuck ourselves. The last thing we want is all our technology and manufacturing going to a corrupt regime who cheats, cuts corners, and who is hungry for the World's Next Superpower title.
That is why I won't be buying Kennametal.
Like Henry Rifles say: "Made in America, Or Not Made At All"
My .02 cents
Chris
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02-23-2021, 06:32 AM #26
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02-23-2021, 11:10 AM #27
Thanks for your anti-China diatribe @cgrim3...really on topic....
Anyway this thread is about the end mills i mentioned.
I'd like anyone on this thread to let me know what companies are making tooling with US sourced carbide blanks. Cuz that doesn't exist.
If you don't like the company the tools, the promoter, whatever thats fine. These ARE good tools and they ARE being sold for a reasonable price. Whether you agree with the machining style of Titan or not, it doesn't matter. My machine can max out at 40-50 cubes maaaaaaybe. So what? Its a small machine. A bigger machine with more horses can max out way higher, and the point is that the tool won't break.
I think goooose just likes to flame shit up. No shit its a Seco tool mentioned in the video. I posted it because its a ridiculous 300hp gantry mill and not many of us have the option to get 800+ cubes.
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02-23-2021, 11:21 AM #28
A small handful on here from what I see.
Granted none that I've ever heard of though.
Carbide Blanks
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02-23-2021, 11:29 AM #29
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02-23-2021, 12:20 PM #30
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02-23-2021, 12:35 PM #31
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02-23-2021, 04:43 PM #32
Carbide Bob,
What is your business name? If you sell endmills, we would like to buy some from you. Ill take this to the Personal messages side
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02-23-2021, 04:47 PM #33
But back to the original topic, I have no doubt the kenna endmills are good. I've read that the gorilla mills are as good but a little cheaper. If you want top quality, go nachi or emuge
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02-23-2021, 05:18 PM #34
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02-23-2021, 06:03 PM #35
My question about the kenna kor and harvi endmills: what exactly makes them so good?
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02-23-2021, 06:31 PM #36
The harvi 1 TE has these really cool looking facets on the relief and some type of hieroglyphs ground into the flutes. I've yet to figure out what they do other than add cost to the grinding.
The harvi 3 is just a 6 flute EM with a eccentric relief grind from what I can tell.
I've run them as well as other quality tooling that costs less and performs the same.
There are plenty of other comparable tools out there. Most of your higher end tools will be ground at a slower feed rate which takes longer and produces a longer lasting tool.....in a machine rigid enough to benefit from it.
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02-23-2021, 07:31 PM #37
So how do these features improve the endmill's life and ability to remove more material? Just wondering
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02-25-2021, 06:20 PM #38
I wasn't overly impressed with Kennametal's Harvi 1 RE. On the subject of aluminum, I'd put GWS Alumigator up against anyone at the same price. Core Cutter end mills for steel all day. Core Cutter owner used to work for Helical and his end mills are superior to Helical.
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02-25-2021, 07:46 PM #39
If you want a decent smaller tool company that also grinds custom carbide to order try carbidetoolsource.com.
They don't do coatings to my knowlege though.
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02-26-2021, 12:00 PM #40
Hurco VM10 series mills.
The accel/decel rates arent the worlds fastest and its no Speedio, but our parts are routinely large enough to hit those feedrates. And not just in a straight line. Roughing circular bores or large pockets hit 350IPM without issue. Smaller features obviously Im not hitting 400IPM and my machining strategy shifts to larger stepovers
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