Thread: Titans of CNC Kennametal Promotions

Originally Posted by cgrim3

I am happy to buy tooling from other countries, such as Israel, Germany, England, Japan, etc. I will not buy inserts made in China.

Refer to the forum below where fellow machinists note differing quality between Kennametal inserts made here and China. This is from 2012. From then until now, Kennametal has built additional factories (perhaps sweatshops, idk) in China.

Kennametal making inserts in CHINA now

A lot has changed since 2012, a lot of what was once made in the US in 2012 is now made abroad.

You might like your made in the US endmills inserts etc, but the raw material and blanks likely come from China. CarbideBob could put better than an educated guess as to Chinese content.

Yeah I know most of the raw material blanks come from overseas and mostly from China. I am not happy about it. But what else am I to do. In terms of processing the raw materials and producing tooling, we like to support local/US companies (Garr, Gorilla mill, balax taps, etc)

Given that the cnc machine tools used are the same and running the same program is a grind in China not as good as ground in the USA on a catalog item?
Yes I hate competition in inserts and form tools but that the game.
For sure lots of low quality shops out there in there in China and in the USA.

Originally Posted by metalmadness

I disagree that he doesn't know what MRR is. Do you think they just run fast feed rates for show? No they do it for the MRR. Im not a Titan fanboy but they literally show their cutter values on every cutting video.

This video shows 50cubes/min unless my maths are wrong

Satisfying Aggressive Hog Out | Incredible Roughing Tool | Doosan DNM 5700L - YouTube

Not like any of us have 300hp to work with
Aluminum Material Removal Rate New World Record? |


Modern Machine Shop

They don't even put MRR numbers up in that video! They have no idea MRR is the only thing that matters in roughing! Well that and cycle time which leads to another point. Whats faster, 2 cuts at 100ipm or one cut at 50ipm?... the cut at 50 is faster since you didnt have to retract and reposition for a second cut! All they do is max the RPM and feed and say look how fast we are cutting!

Another point, how much hp/torque do you think that machine has at max RPM? How much more do you think it has 75% of max RPM? Reducing the RPM while increasing the stepover would probably keep the spindle load relatively the same while increasing the MRR. Increasing the stepover while reducing the feedrate to minimize the number of cuts needed would also reduce the cycle time...but like I said, high RPM and Feedrates is what gets clicks on YouTube I guess.

Oh, nice link to the 'world record'. Did you notice they used a Seco tool for that!

I like to support American jobs in America where human lives are valued, quality is paramount (at least in most shops I think), and ethics are valued. What I don't like to support is Communist China and their desire to become the world's next great super power, especially by becoming the world's manufacturing hub. Are we going to be reliant on Chinese manufacturing for our next war effort with whatever country we go to war with? This is nothing but bad news for the US.

I was watching a documentary on why China has the most bullet trains in the world (>20,000km of track) compared to the US that has none. It seems great and advanced but there is more to the story. These same concepts applies to this conversation here on PM.

1. The Chinese government owns most of the land in China so it doesn't have to buy up land (imminent domain) from private home owners, unlike in the United States, so it can build a bullet train for cheaper. Plus if the Chinese government needed your land, they wouldn't buy it; they would just take it. The government owns everything and the people are at the mercy of its government. The Chinese government even has oversight/distant control over the factories that are supposed to be owned by private businesses....cough cough kennametal. (Think of the Chinese government putting in backdoors into computer electronics i.e. Huawei, Lenovo)

2. With the extremely cheap forced/slave labor China has at its disposal, it can build a train for pennies on the dollar compared to here. I mean look at Nike, Apple, Amazon, and Adidas sweatshops. Paying children and unskilled peoples pennies on the dollar to work in conditions that would be illegal here in the US.

3. Environmental restrictions are virtually nonexistent there, so they don't have to worry about building and working to an environmental code like here in the US.

So yeah, saying we have this technology and that technology compared to the rest of the world sounds great and all, but ask how they got it in the first place. Off the backs of the Chinese people and the rest of the world (via cyberattacks), just to try to become the next world superpower.

And don't get me started on the 80,000 factories that left the US to go to places like China for cheaper wages and cheaper manufacturing.

We need to buy American & Made in America...or else we fuck ourselves. The last thing we want is all our technology and manufacturing going to a corrupt regime who cheats, cuts corners, and who is hungry for the World's Next Superpower title.

That is why I won't be buying Kennametal.

Like Henry Rifles say: "Made in America, Or Not Made At All"

My .02 cents

Chris

Originally Posted by cgrim3

Yeah I know most of the raw material blanks come from overseas and mostly from China.

Sandvik supplies a lot of companies with carbide blanks.

Thanks for your anti-China diatribe @cgrim3...really on topic....

Anyway this thread is about the end mills i mentioned.

I'd like anyone on this thread to let me know what companies are making tooling with US sourced carbide blanks. Cuz that doesn't exist.

If you don't like the company the tools, the promoter, whatever thats fine. These ARE good tools and they ARE being sold for a reasonable price. Whether you agree with the machining style of Titan or not, it doesn't matter. My machine can max out at 40-50 cubes maaaaaaybe. So what? Its a small machine. A bigger machine with more horses can max out way higher, and the point is that the tool won't break.

I think goooose just likes to flame shit up. No shit its a Seco tool mentioned in the video. I posted it because its a ridiculous 300hp gantry mill and not many of us have the option to get 800+ cubes.

Originally Posted by metalmadness

I'd like anyone on this thread to let me know what companies are making tooling with US sourced carbide blanks. Cuz that doesn't exist.

A small handful on here from what I see.
Granted none that I've ever heard of though.


Carbide Blanks

Originally Posted by metalmadness

....

I'd like anyone on this thread to let me know what companies are making tooling with US sourced carbide blanks. Cuz that doesn't exist.

Obviously you do not grind carbide for a living. Of sad note is the Certaizit decision to close Detroit.
Ultra-met, Tungste-met, Quality, HB, Innovative, and many others are still alive and well.
Bob

Originally Posted by CarbideBob

Obviously you do not grind carbide for a living. Of sad note is the Certaizit decision to close Detroit.
Ultra-met, Tungste-met, Quality, HB, Innovative, and many others are still alive and well.
Bob

And what would you know about Carbide........Bob

Originally Posted by metalmadness

Alright alright, say what you will say about Titans of CNC: Academy, but there's one small detail you may have overlooked if you ever watch titans of cnc on youtube.

Titan has partnered with the literal Devil, Kennametal (jk) to offer some of their highest performing endmills at a pretty solid discount for non-bulk buyers such as myself.

Now, I moved from Accupro 3fl ZrN EMs to Helical Solutions 3fl ZrN EMs awhile back. Theyre like 40-50% cheaper thru my regional distributor than the Accupros and they cut a hell of a lot better. I stocked my shop with thousands of $$$ worth, and I likely will keep doing it.

BUT, with this "new" Kennametal promotion where you can buy the Harvi I TE, Harvi 3, and KOR5 aluminum EMs for steep discounts, I couldn't say no. 1/2" KOR5 from my distributor is like $50 i think. Not bad

EDIT: Harvi series EMs are for steels and superalloys, not Alum

Anyway I picked up some 3/8 and 1/2 KOR5 to test out because we hog alot of aluminum. Needless to say I seriously have never seen an endmill that can cut like this endmill can cut. Popped it in my shrink fit holder. My params may be a little conservative but I only have 15hp to work with. 15% radial, 2-3xD, 300-400 IPM. That is no joke, and Im sure I could push those cutters even faster or more aggressively. Titan's not joking when he says these are beasts. I mainly prefer these now to my helical solutions because they can just go faster, and the chips are small, but it also leaves amazing finishes.

I got some Harvi 1 TEs to try out for steels, and just holding it in my hand, Ive never seen geometry quite like this. Certainly not a "twisted face" or chip gashes behind the flute. "Faceted relief" for removing harmonics....all good! Im gonna test this out today but I have no doubt itll perform just as well as the KOR5.

The point is, I would HIGHLY recommend checking out this Kennametal promo because you can get some new tools for cheap!

Alright, end my praise session

what machine are you running this 400 ipm on? if its a haas, you're not going anywhere near those #'s unless its a long straight line.

Carbide Bob,

What is your business name? If you sell endmills, we would like to buy some from you. Ill take this to the Personal messages side

But back to the original topic, I have no doubt the kenna endmills are good. I've read that the gorilla mills are as good but a little cheaper. If you want top quality, go nachi or emuge

Originally Posted by cgrim3

Carbide Bob,

What is your business name? If you sell endmills, we would like to buy some from you. Ill take this to the Personal messages side

Flat tools and inserts only, no round tools.
Bob

My question about the kenna kor and harvi endmills: what exactly makes them so good?

Originally Posted by cgrim3

My question about the kenna kor and harvi endmills: what exactly makes them so good?

The harvi 1 TE has these really cool looking facets on the relief and some type of hieroglyphs ground into the flutes. I've yet to figure out what they do other than add cost to the grinding.

The harvi 3 is just a 6 flute EM with a eccentric relief grind from what I can tell.

I've run them as well as other quality tooling that costs less and performs the same.

There are plenty of other comparable tools out there. Most of your higher end tools will be ground at a slower feed rate which takes longer and produces a longer lasting tool.....in a machine rigid enough to benefit from it.

So how do these features improve the endmill's life and ability to remove more material? Just wondering

I wasn't overly impressed with Kennametal's Harvi 1 RE. On the subject of aluminum, I'd put GWS Alumigator up against anyone at the same price. Core Cutter end mills for steel all day. Core Cutter owner used to work for Helical and his end mills are superior to Helical.

If you want a decent smaller tool company that also grinds custom carbide to order try carbidetoolsource.com.

They don't do coatings to my knowlege though.

Originally Posted by empwoer

what machine are you running this 400 ipm on? if its a haas, you're not going anywhere near those #'s unless its a long straight line.

Hurco VM10 series mills.

The accel/decel rates arent the worlds fastest and its no Speedio, but our parts are routinely large enough to hit those feedrates. And not just in a straight line. Roughing circular bores or large pockets hit 350IPM without issue. Smaller features obviously Im not hitting 400IPM and my machining strategy shifts to larger stepovers