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Tool Change Umbrella YCM Broken

T

twr

Hot Rolled
Joined
Mar 18, 2014
Location
Kitchener Ont. Canada
Hi just out of the blue today while doing a tool change on my YCM the umbrella broke not sure why. After it happened i tried a tool change on the other side of the umbrella and it work fine. Any ideas to what may have happened?



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twr said:
Hi just out of the blue today while doing a tool change on my YCM the umbrella broke not sure why. After it happened i tried a tool change on the other side of the umbrella and it work fine. Any ideas to what may have happened?



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I have the same tool changer on my YCM, could be number of things. Is your spindle orientation set correctly so the tool changer doesn't hit heavily when it indexes. Forget the parameter but Shawn at CNC System in Maine can help with that.
 
Yikes what year is the machine we have a YCM that destroyed its tool changer twice in similar fashion over the years.
 
Hi its a 2000 i just want back to my shop and pulled the umbrella off. Its broke in 3 places not sure if i can weld it back together yet or not. I was to pissed off to really look at it and see!!! I tried a bunch of tool changes on the good side before i took it off and it orients correct and the spindle brake works. Its also comes down the same amount each time so i am not sure why to broke. It broke when it came down to get the next tool if i recall correct not when it released the tool in the spindle. Spindle comes down to tool change height then umbrella comes over then the spindle lifts up the umbrella indexes for next tool then spindle comes down then grabs the tool then the umbrella goes back, is your the same? Some i know the umbrella goes up/down not the spindle i think Rebel 1 are like that or 16 tool changers mine is a 20 tool umbrella.
 
I've seen machines gradually damage the disc when tools get sticky in the taper and the drawbar does not "break" the taper free until the head moves up which stresses the disc. Any chance you have tools sticking?
 
Hi Vanc, i never had any tools stick in the taper. When i got the machine it did look like the umbrella defected when it grabbed a tool and when it released it,i just thought that was normal now i am wondering about that. If i just eject a tool manally out the the spindle i never had one stick that would not come out. Is it normal when running a program and doing a tool change for the umbrella to defect a bit?
 
When the drawbar breaks the taper free it usually causes a bit of deflection to the toolchanger. Only about .5mm though. If you have 1mm or more, I'd say there is something that needs adjustment on your release cylinder or drawbar to reduce the stroke.
 
I think its more than .039 but i never measured it with anything. It would not be tool change height if it seems to go into the pocket smooth when the umbrella comes over to the spindle? How is the stroke measured or adjusted on the release cylinder? Also i thought the drawbar pulled up into the taper by pounds with shims so how would that affect it? Sorry if these questions sound dumb but just trying to understand what may have happened and how to fix so it doesn't happen again.
 
I'm not sure how YCM does their knockout adjustment. Some machines have a threaded rod or other component of the unclamp cylinder to adjust the stroke of the cylinder to limit how much knockout distance you have. Other builders do it with an adjustment to the drawbar itself. Either by a threaded ring or shims/spacers.

Sorry I don't have specific instructions for you. If you can post pictures of the parts drawings for the spindle and drawbar assembly and the unclamp cylinder, I could probably figure out how YCM is doing that and give better advice.
 
I have a couple YCMs of the same vinatge, a 2000 in fact that has done the same thing.

Problem was the o-ring seals in the unclamp cylinder, not holding a seal anymore.

Way to check for this is to manually unclamp with no tool in the spindle, look up inside the spindle with a flashlight. While holding the unclamp button down, see if the fingers that grab the pullstub slowly close.

What happened with mine in this case was when grabbing a tool far from it's current position the unclamp cylinder would loose just enough pressure to allow the clamp fingers to close some. By the time it got around to the new tool and the head came down to pick up the next tool the fingers were closed just enough to push on the back of the pullstud and break the cast ALM unbrella. Tool was forced right through it.

It was an $80 rebuild kit from YCM, well except for the new ALM umbrella piece of course.
 
Alloy Mcgraw said:
I have a couple YCMs of the same vinatge, a 2000 in fact that has done the same thing.

Problem was the o-ring seals in the unclamp cylinder, not holding a seal anymore.

Way to check for this is to manually unclamp with no tool in the spindle, look up inside the spindle with a flashlight. While holding the unclamp button down, see if the fingers that grab the pullstub slowly close.

What happened with mine in this case was when grabbing a tool far from it's current position the unclamp cylinder would loose just enough pressure to allow the clamp fingers to close some. By the time it got around to the new tool and the head came down to pick up the next tool the fingers were closed just enough to push on the back of the pullstud and break the cast ALM unbrella. Tool was forced right through it.

It was an $80 rebuild kit from YCM, well except for the new ALM umbrella piece of course.
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Hi do remember what the umbrella costs? Here in Canada its $2100 plus tax and 300 shipping. I think my cylinder is ok but the stroke is off pushing down to hard on the umbrella and air psi to the machine is set to what YCM manual said, but i will be looking up their with a flashlight as you said and see if its working correct! When doing the tool change the 2 tools were 5 and 6 right beside each other but i am still looking up thier and see if that is what is happening. Thanks for the idea.
 
The locknut and bolt on the end of the tool unclamp cylinder rod are the adjustment. You measure the gap between the toolholder flange and the spindle face while clamped. Then unclamp the tool and whle pushing it up against the drawbar, measure the gap. Should be .5mm-1mm greater when unclamped. If the difference is over or under that range you loosen the locknut and adjust the bolt in or out then tighten the locknut.

Alloy's experience sounds like a possibility too. When yours broke, did the tool drop or was it still properly in the spindle? A leaky unclamp cylinder can cause the tools to stick in the spindle too, but you said you had never seen that before.
 
Well Alloy McGraw i think you hit the nail on the head! When holding the manual unclamp button it opens then starts to close after about 5 to 10 seconds so it needs a seal kit for sure!! I also think the stroke is still to much as Vanc said it defecting more than .020 to .039 so I have 2 problems for sure. Alloy would you have the part number of the seal kit?
 
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Vanc when it did the tool change it put the spindle tool back in the umbrella then indexed for next tool then nasty bang then tool was laying on the table. I looked it and a lot of nasty words followed, then I looked for the pieces! As long as I hold the manual tool change button it should hold the jaws open but its only holding them open for 5 to 10 seconds then slowly closes!
 
twr said:
Well Alloy McGraw i think you hit the nail on the head! When holding the manual unclamp button it opens then starts to close after about 5 to 10 seconds so it need a seal kit for sure!! I also think the stroke is still to much as Vanc said it defecting more than .020 to .039 so I have 2 problems for sure. Alloy would you have the part number of the seal kit?
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I looked back at my records, and can't believe i have no email record of the quotes on the o-ring rebuild kit. At least i'm not using the right search term to narrow it down. I have 4 YCMs, and a million emails from them over the last 6-7 years.

As far as the Umbrella piece goes, the machine that broke was a 20 tool umbrella. I think i was $2500 out the door. Was around $1300 for the part, and $1200 for express shipping from Taiwan. They weren't in stock in the states at the time. I tried to find one high and low outside of YCM, no such luck.

I have all of this on paper stored away, just not on the premises. Sorry i couldn't be of more help on the pricing end of things. The rebuild kit was a standard item though, and came as a package deal. All the o-rings for the cylinder came in one kit, was $80/$85 plus shipping.

Shortly after this, i rebuilt the spindle of the machine next to it, also rebuilt that clamp cylinder at that time to prevent any repeat performances.

On a side note. I had a independent tech orginally diagnose the umbrella break. He said to order the umbrella and he would install and fix. Well, he installed the new umbrella, but didn't fix the original problem. Packed up for the day and left, said all was good. 3 days later hit the cycle start button, started to walk away and BANG. So i text him about it, his response was "That sucks". Broke the brand new Umbrella.
 
I have same problem no stock it has to come from Taiwan I bought it 5 years ago to switch from Bt40 to Cat40 mine came on the slow boat from Taiwan 5 weeks it was 300 shipping I think and 2100 plus tax. So what happen did he just let you buy another umbrella after only being on for 3 days? I never had a tool stick or not unclamp before but I see now it was just a matter of time with the claws slowly moving back when they should not! I got my brother to look at the umbrella and he thinks he can fix it and add some plate to make it stronger, he will start later this week to fix it. If it doesn’t work I will have to buy a new one Damm!
 
twr said:
I have same problem no stock it has to come from Taiwan I bought it 5 years ago to switch from Bt40 to Cat40 mine came on the slow boat from Taiwan 5 weeks it was 300 shipping I think and 2100 plus tax. So what happen did he just let you buy another umbrella after only being on for 3 days? I never had a tool stick or not unclamp before but I see now it was just a matter of time with the claws slowly moving back when they should not! I got my brother to look at the umbrella and he thinks he can fix it and add some plate to make it stronger, he will start later this week to fix it. If it doesn’t work I will have to buy a new one Damm!
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I'm in an industrial park, so the farm kid from the machine shop next door came and tig welded it back together. He did everything to keep the alignment right, but it wasn't meant to be. I have since bought some other new machines, and use it for 2nd ops and such(5 positions are unusable, so it's a 15 position changer now). Tech lost my business, for life. He's well known in my area, and anyone who will listen hears the story. I'm sure i'm a thorn in his side, I sleep well knowing that. I wasn't really willing to go to war over the $2500, it wasn't worth my time.

As far as shipping goes, i wasn't willing to wait for the slow boat(Not that it mattered, i was right back where i started in 3 days anyway).
 
That’s to bad you lost 5 tools and as for the tech he should have knew something caused the problem, hell even I knew something else was screwed! I hope my brother can get it done correct he is very good aluminum welder he does it a lot much better than me welding aluminum. I just pulled the cover to look at the cylinder and with the manual switch held I can see it drop down and hit the mic switch when it should stay up, you were 100 percent right on what screwed up!
 
twr said:
That’s to bad you lost 5 tools and as for the tech he should have knew something caused the problem, hell even I knew something else was screwed! I hope my brother can get it done correct he is very good aluminum welder he does it a lot much better than me welding aluminum. I just pulled the cover to look at the cylinder and with the manual switch held I can see it drop down and hit the mic switch when it should stay up, you were 100 percent right on what screwed up!
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Glad i could be of some help and the problem was identified. Best of luck.
 
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