Tool Presetter Recommendations

Tonytn36 · Jul 13, 2009

Ok,
Getting some quotes on some tool presetters. Nothing super fancy, just need non-contact measuring, 1 micron resolution, 6" dia and 10" height is plenty. I've gotten a quote on a Lyndex/Nikken 123 unit, and it's very reasonable. I've also got my Seco guys quoting one.
Who's got some recommendations? Ballpark pricing? Likes/Dislikes about certian units?

tmt · Jul 13, 2009

A lot really depends on what type of tools you are measuring. I believe that most any presetter these days will work fine on standard tooling, ie., end mills and standard form mills with concave and convex radius', drills, etc. Field of view could be an issue for special form cutters. Some, not all use quadra-check electronics for the measuring interface and many use their own proprietary electronics for gauging. Most all are now using video camera capturing, so resolution and it's ability to accurately use that spec may be a concern. Auto edge detection accuracy is also an important part of it as well. There are as many edge detections algorithms as there are pre-setters out there.

Ok, so much for the tech crap! Ease of use and cost of use are important factors as well. What is the cost for additional holder style., Cat 40, Cat 50, HSk, etc., also what is the cost for each standard for each holder, got to have a reference to go by. Does it have a database to store the info measured, can it download the offsets directly to your machines or format a file that your machine can read. A lot of little things that can make your life easier. How many different machines will you be pre-setting for? The list goes on....

I am partial to Parlec, but that is just me. There are many good pre-setters out there. Price vs function and your needs are really the key factors.

If possible, demo each unit prior to purchase. See what fills your needs the best.

Edster · Jul 14, 2009

I've got a lyndex E123 presetter. It works good. It doesn't have all the bells and whistles, it's actually pretty basic, which makes it easy to use for some of my computer challenged employees. I've had it for over a year now with no problems. Make sure they include the standard with the machine. Some presetters have the standard integrated into the machine but the E123 doesn't. I bought the printer too, but never really use it. It runs off rs232 and the instructions weren't that great. I ended up having to talk to someone in tech support before I could figure out how to configure the printer.

Good luck and happy presetter hunting.

huskermcdoogle · Jul 14, 2009

Tony,

If you look at my avatar you might find me somewhat partial...

I personally have no preference. I am a shop guy, not in sales... :willy_nilly:

I am a programmer and am an end user of Parlec products making Parlec products. We have a few of our presetters on the floor. One benchtop and one 2500 series, as well as an old demo machine that you can't buy any more. I like them, so far have no real issues with them. The software was a little cumbersome to learn when getting into the tool assemblly database stuff. But as far as creating postable tool info code, it is all very straightforward, and works very well. Support seems to be very good, I know the guys that are in our techincal support department, and I feel they are the best people for the job. They know the machines in and out, mechanically, electrically, and on a software basis.

Overall, I would go with the earlier recommendation that you need to try one out on demo and make sure it is going to fit your needs.

Don't forget to look at Zoller too. I have worked with your local Zoller rep (I believe it would be Mike Luksic), he is based in Charlotte at the Partners in Thinc facility, he will bend over backwards for you, very knowledgable guy, and a very good saleman at that. If you get a hold of Mike tell him I say hi.

Husker (Nick)

Tonytn36 · Jul 14, 2009

Husker:
We have a larger, custom Zoller to do all of "our standard" (read custom) tooling, I do plan on talking to them. The problems with that system are that it's in the wrong place, and it requires many hours of training to operate correctly. For this cell, I need something dead simple and quick for "right at the machine cell" work.
I should have had a quote for a Parlec 1500 this evening, but it hadn't yet gotten to me by the time I left.

Edster:
Lyndex/Nikken did quote the standard, and the adapter (I need BT30). The system was very reasonably priced, IMHO.

Any other brands worth looking into?

Bladeguy · Jul 15, 2009

Tony,

I have a customer with a Parlec presetter in their main shop, but they have a repair facility that had to lug all of the tools to the other shop for presetting (about 150 yards). They were looking for something inexpensive, easy to use, no bells and whistles, and they weren't holding extremely tight tolerances (+/-.0015" maybe?). We sold them a Dorian, and so far they are satisfied a year later. Be warned, it is a base machine, but the pricing a year ago was in the 3K-6K range (they have a few models). Support from Dorian where I am at, though, is not the best. I don't think they have any reps in the field here. I guess you get what you pay for, but the machine they have has little problems and fulfills there needs. Your situation sounds similar, so I thought it could be an option for you.

Be sure to check the "window" of whatever you purchase. I know with Parlec (of which I have sold), once you choose a hieght and diameter, there is no expanding. They can modify a lot after you purchase, but not that.

Good luck,

Bladeguy

psychomill · Jul 15, 2009

...once you choose a hieght and diameter...

Husker can probably verify but... depends on the model. The column can be changed out for this to 'expand' later.... I as well am partial to Parlecs and have a half a dozen of them ranging from table top types to full blown inspection driven models.... Very nice stuff.

CarbideBob · Jul 15, 2009

Tony,
At one micron you are pushing the limits of most non-contact measuring systems. (unless you go to UV lighting.) This is an optics and wavelength of light problem that hits a wall here when you are talking six-sigma gage numbers (but you said resolution not repeatability, so maybe not a problem).

Many will advertise specs they really can't meet.
Make sure you get a R&R report (you already knew this).
More importantly make sure they remove and replace the tool between each check Easy to get great numbers with a static tool. Also make sure you check two different size tools.
Not saying the vendors will lie to you, but you know how those salesmen think

.
Bob

Tonytn36 · Jul 15, 2009

Good advice folks....

This is mainly for a BT-30 machine, but I'm going to make a couple of adapters to do tooling for the other machines in this cell. 6"-8" in X should be all I would ever need. I need 10-12" in Z.
I got the quote for the Parlec 1500, it was well over double what the Lyndex Nikken was priced, and well outside of my budget allowance.
I've also requested a quote from Zoller, but I figure they are going to be another set of balls above Parlec.....we'll see.

And Bob,
I've dealt with enough salesmen to fully understand you don't believe a word they say until you actually see it with your own eyes.....feel it with your hands....and have the data to back it up....
Not dissing salesmen.....but....experience is the best instructor.

huskermcdoogle · Jul 16, 2009

Can't say that I know much about our presetter's yet other than when you have whole bunch of people using them and you need to measure something critical, always check the calibration of the machine, cleanliness of the taper, and whatnot or you will have the classic shit in = shit out problem. With the number of people that use our three on floor models, you can get a bit of variation in your measurements (+/-.001) esp with old coolant and grime covered shanks. But, if you take the two seconds to verify the sight gage, before you measure you will get good numbers, once things are clean I never see more .0001" of variation (sometimes it will flicker back and forth between two numbers).

Husker

mwarren1999 · Jul 17, 2009

http://www.nttoolusa.com

This company tends to fly under the radar in the US, but is known for high quality products. I have no idea their costs, but Stewart there will do all he can to help you.

Tonytn36 · Jul 25, 2009

Trying to update stuff this morning. So far I've gotten quotations on the Nikken, Zoller, (2x) - Parlec and PTM (B?) Swiss. The range so far is ~$6500 to ~$17,000.

ARB · Jul 25, 2009

Tony, Are you really finding non contact for 6500ish?

Tonytn36 · Jul 25, 2009

ARB said:
Tony, Are you really finding non contact for 6500ish?

ARB, yes....and that included the BT-30 adapter and Master IIRC.

BIG Kaiser - CL · Aug 4, 2009

Tony,

BIG Kaiser also offers Tool Presetters at a competive price.
www.bigkaiser.com

We have contact and non contact Presetters. Please take a look at our models, and contact us for a quote.

CarbideBob · Aug 5, 2009

Tony,
Regardless of what make you end up with, I'd be very interested to know what you end up with for a 6S R&R number on a non-contact system doing this.
Bob

Joe788 · Aug 26, 2009

Tony, did you ever get anywhere with this presetter deal?

Tonytn36 · Aug 26, 2009

Joe788 said:
Tony, did you ever get anywhere with this presetter deal?

Joe,
I'm still entertaining solicitations. This is a (hopefully) 4th quarter purchase. I've got 3 different companies that have offered to ship one in to test. I'm going to take them up on it, but I am buried for the next 2 weeks, so there is no need in them shipping them in for testing just to sit around for 2 weeks and look pretty.

I think I'm going to try to take all 3 up on the offer and compare them side by side.

Pitt · Nov 20, 2009

Powerful presetter software (free)

We have 2 contact presetters. Both work fine for what we do. However only one has an RS232 Port.
There is no point to spend extra money on software features, such as tool database, offset upload etc. as that up's the price a lot.
For free you can download software that can do all of it and more at: http://www.tool-wall.com
It is important that the presetter has an RS232 port. After you measured your tool just press the "Upload" button (some presetter use the Print button) and the measured values are transfered to the software. From there you can upload the new offset directly to your machine. It cuts down on mistakes.

Tonytn36 · Dec 12, 2009

Update

We've decided on a presetter. Unfortunately, with the staffing reductions this year and all of the "must do" projects that have clumped together since June, I was not able to get machines in to do the side-by-side like I wanted. I just do not have time available. However, we do have both Zoller and PWB Swiss machines in house already in other departments.

I ordered a Rego-fix pwb swiss TM-10 SMART-X. We got a screaming deal on it.

This machine wasn't the cheapest quote I received, but stacked up as the most value for the cost. It was low-mid pack on the quote range.

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