Tooling a new cat-40 mill

Cole2534 · Feb 21, 2019

Hi all,
With some luck I'll have my very first VMC, Fadal 4020, in the next month or so and I'm not totally sure what I need. I currently have a pretty well tooled Bridgeport- vise, chuck, cutters, clamps, etc, etc..... Machine has rigid tapping, should be good there.

What I want to know is what I should be looking for in cat40 holders? Maritool's package deal seems pretty good (3 er32 holders, 3 er16 holders, collet sets, tools) for $1000 but I'd like some dedicated holders too.

Here's my thoughts, please provide feedback.
Dedicated holders-
Edge finder (eventually a Haimer)
Popular EM's
My boring head
Couple drill chucks
Mitee bites, 10 or 12
Moderate face mill, what size?

I feel like that will get me started, but I may be way off base. What do you all think I should also add to my list?

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Milland · Feb 21, 2019

The facemill depends on how you want to use it, as well as the HP and stiffness of the machine you're getting. For real hogging, perhaps limit yourself to a 2" or 2.5" with 4-6 inserts, for light area cuts up to 5" or so. Factor in toolchanger pocket requirements for weight and diameter, or make it so large tools are always manually loaded.

You might want to have some threadmills always ready in a holder, depending on how good your machine is in helical interpolation. Ditto a couple roughing tools as well as finish endmills. A couple tapping heads too?

Cole2534 · Feb 21, 2019

I guess the model would help, I put it in the original post, its a Fadal 4020.

D.D.Machine · Feb 21, 2019

Mari stuff is nice and I have a hand full of there cat40 sidelock holders and then needed about 30 holders for a new product and looked at the Techniks that I had been useing for a couple years and they were holding up great and were a lot cheaper. fast forward a year I once more needed a large lot of holders and had over time got some Shars balanced holders in sidelock and er32/er16 and they also were holding up great and were even cheaper yet ... Bottom line is years ago to get a good holder you had to spend the bucks and but collis, Valenite, or other top shelf brand to get a good holder that lasted and you could be happy to own ... times have changed a "LOT" and from what I have seen most all the holders being made are better today than any were 20 years ago ...

I have over a 100 of the shars balanced holders and have been happy with every one of them ..

D.D.Machine · Feb 21, 2019

most Fadals are 7,500 RPM and you can run about anything in there spindles .. there spindles seem to grow a lot if you run hi RPM and you well want to leave the spindle empty at the end of the day or the tool well stick in the spindle when it cools off...

rklopp · Feb 21, 2019

If you do a lot of small job-shop-type drilling, Mari has some 8 mm integral-shank keyless chucks that are pretty sweet. They are quick to change drills, about as short gauge length for a drill chuck there is, and good quality. I would not use one for pushing, say, a 5/16" drill hard, however, due to chance of slipping and galling the drill shank, but for things like 10-32 tap drills, they are very nice, especially with screw-machine-length drills butted all the way into the bottom of the chuck so the drill can't push back.

Rstewart · Feb 21, 2019

I've Never had the need or even seen the need for a drill chuck in a VMC with a tool changer.
ER collets can clamp down .03 or so, a collet set will cover the range of drills.
Don't waste the money on them

Edit:. Buy a dedicated tap holder system like blitz. Don't have to worry about them slipping.

Milland · Feb 21, 2019

Rstewart said:
I've Never had the need or even seen the need for a drill chuck in a VMC with a tool changer.
ER collets can clamp down .03 or so, a collet set will cover the range of drills.
Don't waste the money on them

I beg to differ. In most cases I do prefer a collet, but I've used jobber drills down to ~.008" with Albrecht or Llambrich miniature keyless chucks to good effect. And I've also used larger chucks (to 3/8") when I wanted rapid changeover. Sure, you can't push the drill to 100"/minute, but they have their place.

cpifer3 · Feb 22, 2019

Id talk to some of your tool reps, some times they can do a little better on package deals than what you see online or in the book. At least that was my experience.
I like short projection collet holders for rigidity , but its hard to beat a side lock when it comes to keeping the tool from pulling out in a HSM style tool path. Comp/tension tap holders are way more forgiving than rigid tapping if you can get a few. Just when you thing you have every thing you need, you WILL need more.

Cole2534 · Feb 22, 2019

D.D.Machine said:
Mari stuff is nice and I have a hand full of there cat40 sidelock holders and then needed about 30 holders for a new product and looked at the Techniks that I had been useing for a couple years and they were holding up great and were a lot cheaper. fast forward a year I once more needed a large lot of holders and had over time got some Shars balanced holders in sidelock and er32/er16 and they also were holding up great and were even cheaper yet ... Bottom line is years ago to get a good holder you had to spend the bucks and but collis, Valenite, or other top shelf brand to get a good holder that lasted and you could be happy to own ... times have changed a "LOT" and from what I have seen most all the holders being made are better today than any were 20 years ago ...

I have over a 100 of the shars balanced holders and have been happy with every one of them ..

I agree, we have a lot of good options now. Mari has been good to me over the years, so for now I'll continue to buy their equipment. Should I ever need 100 at once, maybe they'll cut me some slack.

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G00 Proto · Feb 22, 2019

I hate admit it, but a low RPM I too have had very good luck with the Shars Balanced Toolholders. I bought a couple for a special job where I needed a couple cheapies... they were nice enough that I bought a couple more. Now I have lots of them and have never had a problem. I know that I am probably supporting an enemy of the United States that undoubtedly relies on child labor and probably doesn't have ADA compliant bathrooms; but what the heck, they make a pretty good toolholder.

mhajicek · Feb 22, 2019

I'm using mostly Maritool ER-11, ER-16, and ER-32 holders, plus a couple chucks, Techniks Cool-Blast shrink fits, and a few solid holders. It all depends on the tool and the application. So what do you plan to cut?

I can see never needing chucks for production, but since I do a lot of prototyping it's often faster and easier to throw a drill or tap in a chuck rather than find the right sized collet, which I may have used all of already.

Cole2534 · Feb 22, 2019

mhajicek said:
..... I do a lot of prototyping it's often faster and easier to throw a drill or tap in a chuck rather than find the right sized collet, which I may have used all of already.

My thoughts exactly, particularly part about the required collet already being in use.

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