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Toyoda HMC's with pallet pools (FMS systems) pro and cons

cncbass777

Plastic
Joined
Sep 9, 2015
Hello all new user here:

Currently evaluating FMS systems and looking for feedback from users on Toyoda i.e. reliability , service support etc.

I would appreciate any and all feedback.

Thanks
 
Toyoda's are well designed. Depending on your proximity to their service people, you may or may not have an issue. We had a mid 90s machine and it had components that they could not supply? Age of the machine is an issue. It was reliable as anything could be.
 
Hello all new user here:

Currently evaluating FMS systems and looking for feedback from users on Toyoda i.e. reliability , service support etc.

I would appreciate any and all feedback.

Thanks
.
i use Toyoda Horizontal cnc mill and a cnc Gantry mill with vertical and horizontal attachments
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i cannot compare with many other brands of machines. all machines from different companies eventually have problems. hard to say what is normal as machines get older
 
Imo Pallet pool > FMS

I just went through this a year ago. The pricing for FMS is a ton more than a pallet pool. And I have yet to figure out what benefits a FMS does over a pallet pool. It has a computer attached?
 
Toyoda FMS

Hello all new user here:

Currently evaluating FMS systems and looking for feedback from users on Toyoda i.e. reliability , service support etc.

I would appreciate any and all feedback.

Thanks

Hi Bass new here too, bought a used Toyoda vertical with pallets a few years ago and support was poor over the phone. Engineering is good I would say, there is a connection between Toyota and Toyoda in Japan I think the name is the same so good engineering when new, what happens down the road I do not know.
Look at Mazak we have a palletech system from them that works well and their support is good.
Also Matsuura what do they have now for FMS?
 
Imo Pallet pool > FMS

I just went through this a year ago. The pricing for FMS is a ton more than a pallet pool. And I have yet to figure out what benefits a FMS does over a pallet pool. It has a computer attached?

FMS gives you scheduling power and live information about the machine.
Pallet pool is just the hardware. You have to program it as a big main and sub program.
 
FMS gives you scheduling power and live information about the machine.
Pallet pool is just the hardware. You have to program it as a big main and sub program.

Dunno about all the brands, but most I've seen have a "four face control" for the pallet pool. Basically you tie a program to a face of pallet. When that pallet is in the load station, you tell it whether or not you want it to run that face. You can do infinitely more with an actual cell controller, but the four face deal isn't bad if you only want one machine and aren't managing hundreds of programs and tools.
 
the first and only FMS i have seen in person had many pallets - as 30 or 40 - all of which could be fed to either of two machines - and I was told more machines could be fed. pallet pools are normally devoted to a single machine, no? so how many machines are fed by the pallet pool would seem to be a key difference.

scheduling software could of course be applied to either configuration.
 
the first and only FMS i have seen in person had many pallets - as 30 or 40 - all of which could be fed to either of two machines - and I was told more machines could be fed. pallet pools are normally devoted to a single machine, no? so how many machines are fed by the pallet pool would seem to be a key difference.

scheduling software could of course be applied to either configuration.

Your correct,

In our experience the FMS system is a huge benefit. We have both and will only have FMS here shortly. Another benefit.. if you plug in a another machine its able to run current fixtures so your capacity is increased on all products, not just what you put on the machine.
I would vote Makino ;-)
 
Thanks all - I have talked to some Makino users too - just looking a different point of view - also could use some feedback on Fastems system if anyone has any first hand knowledge
 
'Toyoda supports Toyota in Japan. Different companies but under the same umbrella.

Go FMS, completely expandable to fit your capacity needs. The machines are up to 500 tool capacity in the matrix mags, which basically is the entire length of the machine. You can plug in a machine to the RGV System and expand the pallets as needed. Have your sales guy get you into the Atlas Groups Vitron Mfg. campus up on Union Hills, They still are running the second 4 machine cell I setup back in 98'- 99', and that program was running 600+ hours a month for each machine, 4 machines and 22 pallets in the system. There use to be another cell at Morris Mfg down in Chandler as well. I know of another system out here in Ca. that is a 10 machine cell and they have been running it for the last 20 years.

A few years back there service dept went thru some big changes and I believe they are much more inline with what is expected out of a machine tool builder. Phycho's install was in the middle of those changes unfortunately.

There may still be a service guy living in Scottsdale, if he hasn't retired, and there was another coming out of Colorado during my time. Both guys are solid veterans of the company and resolved all of my issues that I couldn't tackle myself. The engineering group is top notch. I also know of a couple local independent guys that will be able to take care of your service and they are well versed in the brand. They use to do our PM work, when Methods West got shook up they went out on there own, again both solid guys.

Toyods FMS control is far superior to any of the other brands in the market place when it come to flexibility of process. They started out with this in mind when they developed the FMS System software where as others have been a copy cat with some of the key details missing or not working to there full potential. I evaluated them all back in 2008 and not one of the other brands came close to the flexibility the Toyoda had, not even Makino at that time.

Matsuura would be my next choice. They have the closest cell controller to the Toyoda that I know of and there horiz machines are top notch. You will be able to view both if your guy can get you into the Vitron campus.

Just so your aware I'm not affiliated with Toyoda or Matsuura on any level, just been doing the FMS thing since the mid 90's, and I would be happy to answer any detail questions you have from a user side. Just send me a PM with an email addy, as my new gig is going to consume me and I won't get back to PM often enough to follow this thread.

Good luck with your decision, your local Toyoda sales guy should be Mike Goodger and he will bend over backwards to make sure you are takin care of.

Off to Westec tomorrow, should be some nice toys there to ogle over.
 
Toyods FMS control is far superior to any of the other brands in the market place when it come to flexibility of process. They started out with this in mind when they developed the FMS System software where as others have been a copy cat with some of the key details missing or not working to there full potential. I evaluated them all back in 2008 and not one of the other brands came close to the flexibility the Toyoda had, not even Makino at that time.

This is an interesting observation. About that same time I was also looking at an FMS to replace a bunch of standalone horizontals. At IMTS I looked at lots of builders offerings to try to thin out the players from the pretenders. IIRC the Toyoda offering was a third party pallet handling and cell control system. Their demo was uninspiring and cost them consideration for that sale.

An additional negative for the Toyoda was that they used a third party tool hive if one wanted lots of tools (300+). That hive had its own controller that the user had to enter data into. So to run the cell the operator had 3 separate control panels to use. Seemed cumbersome and inefficient to me.
 
This is an interesting observation. About that same time I was also looking at an FMS to replace a bunch of standalone horizontals. At IMTS I looked at lots of builders offerings to try to thin out the players from the pretenders. IIRC the Toyoda offering was a third party pallet handling and cell control system. Their demo was uninspiring and cost them consideration for that sale.

An additional negative for the Toyoda was that they used a third party tool hive if one wanted lots of tools (300+). That hive had its own controller that the user had to enter data into. So to run the cell the operator had 3 separate control panels to use. Seemed cumbersome and inefficient to me.

Jtek (tool mag and RGV system) and Toyoda have been working together since the 80's putting together these systems, they are both joined at the hip and are both transparent when it comes to technology. Same thing with the cell controller software. It is written specifically for Toyoda FMS and you won't find it in any other manufacturers machine tool.

If there is an issue with any of the components Toyoda handles it all. There controls, install techs, and service folks are all well educated in handling the issues.

The magazine control panel is linked to the Toyoda's OP Suporter side of the machine control. This holds all of the data about each tool. Tool life, tool breakage, first run tool,spare tools and a host of other features that make managing 500 tools easier for lights out manufacturing. In my opinion I find it much easier to manage tooling while the machine is running then stopping the machine to change out a worn endmill or broken drill.
 








 
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