Trouble w/Old Bandit CNC / Shizuoka ST-N

Hey, Guys!

Yes, I picked up an old Shizuoka ST-N with an old Bandit CNC. Annnnd.... I'm having a little trouble with it (surprise!)

Now, before you guys start in on me for collecting old "junque," about all I need this machine to do is run a face mill on the X axis! Anything more than that is gravy. (It was cheap, in nice shape mechanically, came with a couple of vices, a selection of tools, all the docs, a laptop, and some software.)

I can't seem to reach the old "guru" (Len? Ken?) Albright. Is he still around?

Hey, if I can't get the CNC to work, I _could_ retrofit the machine with a simple power feed and some handles, and it would suffice for my current needs. I'd just rather not.

When turned on, the machine "whistles," but won't jog or execute any commands from MDI. Limit switches are a little sticky, but appear to be functioning. Depressing them causes a "click" (solenoid switch, I presume) which shuts off the "whistle". Hope that explanation was clear.

I'm new to this old machine and _might_ be doing something wrong, but I don't _think_ so. I could post a couple of vids if that helps.

Also, if it's an electrical issue, anybody got any schematics? I'm reasonably handy with electronic repairs (worked as an electronics repair technician in a previous life.)

Any helpers out there?

TIA,

Ron

Details please. Approximate year, model of control, CRT or one line, type of servo drives?

If it whistles it should be servos, probably analog, and they are "on". Limit switch should shut them down.

Does it show anything on the display?

Ed.

>Approximate year?

Don't really know, but S/N is 94001.

>Model of control?

Looks like 212-300-33

>CRT or one line?

One line LED.

>Type of servo drives?

Not sure. Don't see any identifying marks or indications.

>If it whistles it should be servos, probably analog, and they are "on". Limit switch should shut them down.

Yes, limit switches all appear to be functioning.

>Does it show anything on the display?

Yes. Perhaps I'm doing something wrong? Videos posted here:

Shizuoka ST-N: Bad Dana Summit Bandit CNC? (Jog and MDI) - YouTube

and here:

Shizuoka ST-N: Bad Dana Summit Bandit CNC? (Limit Switches) - YouTube

You said you had "all the docs". What do they say about start up and trouble shooting?

A one line control that old is going to be a nightmare to learn on.

If all you want is to run a cutter across with X axis then jumper the spindle contactor and connect a small DC VS drive to the X servo motor, presuming it is DC.

Retro fits are common and not always practical.

Ed.

Pull the boards in the control box one at a time and use a pencil eraser to clean the board contacts

I had one of those machines. It had a QuickDraw tool changer on it, made by, the Fadal guys! It was called that because the tool change looked like a gunslinger flipping a gun out of its holster NOT because it was fast.

Just sit back and watch the blinking lights and don’t touch nothing!

Ron, mine has steppers, not servos and it whistles but I think it is the control. On mine, there is a set of 6 buttons in a box mounted near the quill, to light up the control I have to push the "on" button of the pair marked "spindle". Jogs have to in jog mode, mdi is for entering data, Auto is for executing moves. I don't think you can execute a move in mdi.

>What do they say about start up and trouble shooting?

Unfortunately, precious little about troubleshooting. And, there are no board-level schematics.

>A one line control that old is going to be a nightmare to learn on.

In this particular case, not really. It's a very basic machine, not something I want to use for complex tool paths. So, the basic commands are really very simple and straight forward. The trouble is only that the basic commands aren't working.

>If all you want is to run a cutter across with X axis then jumper the spindle contactor and connect a small DC VS drive to the X servo motor, presuming it is DC.

Interesting thought! Not sure if AC or DC. My "plan B" was to fit hand wheels and a power feed in X, but that might be simpler.

>Retro fits are common and not always practical.

That's the nail, I'm afraid. The machine's a beauty, but retrofit is impractical.

THX for the ideas!

Ron

>Pull the boards in the control box one at a time and use a pencil eraser to clean the board contacts

Will do!

>Ron, mine has steppers, not servos and it whistles but I think it is the control.

I'll take a closer look and see if I can figure out what type of motors mine has.

>On mine, there is a set of 6 buttons in a box mounted near the quill, to light up the control I have to >push the "on" button of the pair marked "spindle".

Hmm. There's no mention of that in the docs I got with the machine, but I'll take a closer look.

>Jogs have to in jog mode

This is the main problem. I can't seem to get it to jog in jog mode. It's possible that I'm doing something wrong, but I don't _think_ so. (As I _think_ I'm following the commands in the docs explicitly.)

>mdi is for entering data, Auto is for executing moves. I don't think you can execute a move in mdi.

Let me review. If I can get the machine to work, I'd like to use MDI. For the simple things I need the machine to do, connecting a computer, RS-232, hyperterminal, loading files, etc. would just be a headache.

THX for the input!

Ron

I had one of those forever ago. It was hard to find info on using it back in 2004.

I remember I spent months rebuilding the toolchanger (I was in the military, so only had a weekend here and there) finally got it all working and drilled and faced 4 holes and that was all the memory could hold.

I was lucky to sell it for what I paid for it!

Usually INSERT is used in MDI, not enter. Have no idea if it matters on that thing.

I'd be tempted to bypass the control for what you need just like the other guy said.

A real VMC is so cheap these days I'd never consider doing that work. I'd just buy a better machine and use it.

One other thought to add to what some of the others have said, the wells index that I used had a axis enable button on the machine and it also had a slide lock mushroom button on it, if you get it working you can if I remember right do about 200 lines of code, one thing I would always do is keep a notebook handy to hand write your code in or the one line display will drive you nuts. Lots of quirks are cured by cleaning the board contacts, I repeat clean the board contacts
P.S. you might want to clean the board contacts��

One reason a machine won't move in MDI is because no Feed rate has yet been commanded

You can concatenate commands, so just enter a feed rate command once and it will be modal until changed (or powered off).

Note that the Feed rate override knob has a detente at the extreme CCW position that acts as Feed hold. It won't feed if the knob is set there either

You probably know that rapid moves are designated with a / character in front of the axis address, followed by a position.

Note that G90 (for absolute mode) and G91 (incremental mode) must also be commanded once to install a mode.

Home position is set with a G92 command. Home is wherever the machine is positioned where that command is executed. No work offsets, those things were strictly G92 machines, and you could get into serious trouble with that, if you don't understand it.

"you might want to clean the board contacts"

Wondering if you might be related to Johnny Two Times from Good Fellas ("I'm gonna go pick up da pay-puhs, pick up da pay-puhs....")

OK, I'm going to go clean up the contacts, clean up the contacts!

>One reason a machine won't move in MDI is because no Feed rate has yet been commanded

Well, I did try putting in various F commands, but it didn't seem to make any difference.

>just enter a feed rate command once and it will be modal until changed (or powered off).

Should be, yes, or at least that's what I was planning on doing. Once I've got feed and speed set, I _should_ be OK.

>Note that the Feed rate override knob has a detente at the extreme CCW position

Understood. I had it set to 100, but I also tried a few mid positions. It didn't seem to matter.

>You probably know that rapid moves are designated with a / character in front of the axis address, followed by a position.

Once I've got it running, I'll only need a rapid move to reset to the start position at the end of the facing op. That is, assuming I get this thing working!

>Note that G90 (for absolute mode) and G91 (incremental mode) must also be commanded once to install a mode.

I'll double check, but I didn't _think_ I needed to do that in jog mode(?)

>Home position is set with a G92 command. Home is wherever the machine is positioned where that command is >executed. No work offsets, those things were strictly G92 machines, and you could get into serious trouble >with that, if you don't understand it.

Well, you know what they say, "Home is where the heart is"! Gosh, I just need this thing to make facing cuts.... Wish me luck (hopefully, I won't need much.)

Now, like Johnny Two-Times, "I'm going to go clean the contacts, clean the contacts."

Hey, Guys, THANKS for the input! Much appreciated.

Ron

>Now, like Johnny Two-Times, "I'm going to go clean the contacts, clean the contacts."

Annnnddddd she's making chips! (Weehoo!) Removed, cleaned, and reseated the cards and she's working good.

Ron

RonHorowitz said:

>Now, like Johnny Two-Times, "I'm going to go clean the contacts, clean the contacts."

Annnnddddd she's making chips! (Weehoo!) Removed, cleaned, and reseated the cards and she's working good.

Ron

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put up some pics please--i/m pat,over in sebastopol-and i have a thread of sorts when i took the spindle out of my shiz,- and was asking for advice here will post a pic when i get over to look at it-here's one when i had it apart

pat pounden said:

put up some pics please--i/m pat,over in sebastopol-and i have a thread of sorts when i took the spindle out of my shiz,- and was asking for advice here will post a pic when i get over to look at it-here's one when i had it apart

Click to expand...

OK! Been a while since I checked this thread, but I'll have to remember to do that. Nice looking old machine, really. Hell, now that I've got it working, I'm wondering if anyone's done a modern retrofit. The servos and encoders seem to be working fine, and so do the servo driver circuits. Seems like "all it really needs" is a more modern logic board and programming interface (if I ever wanted to program it instead of just entering commands manually, the RS-232 runs slower than an old dial-up modem!

Ron

are there "just plug in" adaptors to use something other than the rs 232??-thanks,pat

pat pounden said:

are there "just plug in" adaptors to use something other than the rs 232??-thanks,pat

Click to expand...

The trouble is that the "brain" is too old. The basic machine is fine, the servos are fine, and the servo drives are fine, but I'm not aware of any easy way to update just the logic and memory. Most retrofits are designed to replace all the electronics including the servos. Also, I don't have an electrical schematic or even a block diagram of the "computer." So, for the time being, I'm using it as a "one trick pony." Solid old machine, though!