Turning center, must have options?

What are some of the options you couldn't do away with on turning centers ? (mostly looking at mazak and a few korean brands...)
Obviously chip conveyor. What about parts catcher? a few models I'm looking at have servo tailstocks that I believe can be programmed to move in and out all the way(Don't really want one of those drag type tailstocks, won't work well with 1 type of part) Most of my parts are best dropped on a tailstock delrin bar(how I catch them on the manual lathe), definitely can't let them drop in the chips... possibly a well padded parts catcher, they can't ding against each other either...

What about coolant pump, how much pressure ideally for U drills? figure 4-8" deep 5/8" to 1.5" hopes in 316, duplex, inconel. regular pump ok or need 200-300psi+?

anything else?

I would say a parts catcher is pretty important even though it can get in the way at times its nice to have when needed. The available Z axis thrust can also be really important as some machines are really under powered in this area. Take a good look at the chuck diameter to adjacent tool clearance charts also. Hp coolant pump also.

The parts catcher is handy as shit. If you can't have dings, I've seen some rigged with thick felt on the inside, and a small belt conveyor coming out for long, unattended production.

From what you've said of parts, you'd be fine with just your standard lathe.
Look into what live tools would cost you, and if it would be worth it.
Being able to drill and tap BHC without a second setup is really nice.

See if Mazak or whoever has something similar to the Haas spindle speed variation.
It oscillates spindle speed and feed to keep chatter down. It might just be just enough to keep from having to use a tailstock.

I think Mazak comes standard with 230psi coolant.

Edit: For lots of SS and Inco, maybe look at the thru coolant stick tools with the directed nozzles.
They claim far better tool life, but even if it just breaks the chip and doesn't scratch your part it may be worth it.
It might need 1000psi coolant though.

"Turning center, must have options?"

Well, Mazatrol of course.

Chip conveyor, programmable tailstock (avoid the manual/drag-along like the plague), parts catcher, tool eye (standard on most machines now), and probably the first-level coolant pump upgrade.

Yes, a new Mazak will cost more than a new Korean machine, but the Mazak will hold the value difference for the next decade or two. If worst came to worst, a good condition used late-model Mazak turning center will sell for good $$ and fast.

For a job shop, Mazatrol is undoubtedly the best programming solution for 2-axis turning, hell it's even the cat's meow for a live-tooled 3-axis lathe. Once you learn the programming, it's just stupid simple to get an efficient, proven, reliable program.

Edits are simple and fast to make.

Mazatrol allows me to make better parts, as I can easily tweak surface finishes, radii, tapers, blends, threads, grooves, etc. With Mazatrol you will never leave burrs, it's just too easy to program out.

Tool-nose radius compensation is 100% in the background on a Mazak, you never have to think twice about it --- and each tool will always use it --- again helping you make a better, more accurate part.

I could go on about the control...but you get the point.

And Mazak doesn't skimp on spindle and servo motors, so you won't be running out of thrust or horsepower anytime soon.

Good luck on your choice, and keep us posted!

ToolCat

Parts Catcher, for small high volume runs.
Fully programmable tailstock.
Chip conveyor.
COOLENT SKIMMER!!!!!!!!
Just in case it doesn't come with it, a USB port for up, and down loading programs.

I'd get high pressure coolant. The standard pressure on Mazak is not much.
If you get a lathe with live-tooling get the Y-axis too, it will save a lot of second ops.

If you are going to buy a new machine, 1000 psi is incredibly useful. We are able to do things we could not without it. They are not that expensive.

I agree on all of this. Parts catcher, high pressure coolant, Y axis with live tooling, and tailstock. If you're running any kind of volume a bar feeder is nice, or shoot for a bar puller(beats manually pulling stock).

If you're going to be running lots of super alloys, then I'd consider high-pressure coolant, but for the turning tools. It will give you better chip-breaking & tool life in those materials. We (Seco) make some fine toolholders for thru-coolant. I would also look at our Perfomax indexable drills as well. I have customers that swear by them for Stainless...

Based on my past experience on machines, I'd pass on any lathe with a gear-box, and opt for one with a 2-speed winding motor. You can change speed ranges without stopping the spindle, and you still get gobs of torque in the low-speed range. We used to run 4" indexable/modular drills on a 25hp Okuma in toolsteel, and it always had plenty of power for that...

I'm also biased toward Okuma machines as well. And while I haven't used Mazatrol, I was impressed with a demo on Okuma's IGF conversationl programming. It was very quick, and it offered you the ability to see the program written out in G-code as well. I believe DMG-Mori's conversation is very similar in that aspect. And I'd bet that an Okuma LB-series option-for-option vs. a Mazak would be dang close, if not cheaper in price, and on much better Iron...

A big enough bank account to pay for it - without borrowing money.

The only Turning centers I've seen so far with 2 speed windings are Okuma, haven't seen it noted on any other brands. Do any others do it? There's not much for High Torque options in the 8"-10" chuck size machines. If the Genos 400 had a better tailstock design I'd reconsider it, but maybe I should check if they got options.. though it seems more $ than a QTU350 so far...

Regarding programmable/servo tailstocks, only 2 I saw so far that have it Mazak and Hyundai-wia. Doosan lynx's and all the others appear to be drag type(didn't check mori, unlikely I will anyhow) I didn't see mention of the others brands offering upgrades on it.

I'll skip on live tools, little point getting C axis/mill without going with Y and by then its beyond what I can swing $ without payment terms...

Anyway, I'm gonna do my best to get something in here this year, short of a major catastrophe. Body is tired, and I keep losing too much time and $ not having one.

Mazak is still the most popular brand in my area, along with haas(not on my list), nobody else hardly ever sold a machine here.

Wow!!!

I have got to be the oddest fucking duck out there ( and often told so by sales guys too ) when it comes to preferences in machines.

Chip conveyer... Doesn't work well with long stringy chips and makes the machine 2-3' wider. No thanks.

Parts catcher ... There is always a bastard part that flies off without ever making it near the catcher, or when it does make it near, it hits the corner just so it gets dinged. No, thanks.

Conversational ... Lathe programs are stupid simple compared to milling, and when they are not simple, they are not simple for conversational either. No, thanks.

Programmable tailstock ... Can be very useful at times. However, mine is not the manual drag type, rather it's moved by a screw. In some cases the only way I can support the tip of
the stock is to manually move the tailstock onto the part with little pressure from the screw because any pressure from the hydraulics would just simply bend the part. I know Mori's
programmable tailstocks are pressure sensitive, perhaps others are as well but you pay for them.

Gearbox ... No gearbox! If you can sacrifice RPM vs torque, do it. Otherwise a dual wound spindle such as Mori, Okuma and some others have on the higher end machines.

High press. coolant .... Only if you're planning on drilling really small holes, but then you WILL want a Y axis just so the tool can be set dead-center.

Turret .... No VDI. Period!

Turret#2 ... and to me THIS IS THE MAIN ISSUE: It has to be large enough so I never, ever, under ANY circumstances whatsoever have to remove a tool because of clearance issues.
I am perfectly happy that a 10" chuck machine can only turn maybe 11" diameters, but I will NOT want to worry about what adjacent tool I might bust off, nor do I want to be
concerned during programming what tool to put in which station.
Case in point, on my Duraturn with a 10" chuck, Station 5 is always the cutoff tool, and station 6 is always either a drill or an insert drill.
Similarly, on the Haas SL10 with a 10 station 1" stick turret and 6" chuck, Station 5 is also the cutoff tool and station 6 is also the insert drill.
Never ever busted a tool, even with jaws extended by an 1" or so beyond the chuck.

Toolsetter ... Absolutely a MUST-HAVE! You may find that every once in a while you can't touch off some stupid tool, but most of the time though, it makes life livable.

Graphics ... Another must-have. I don't care is it's CAM, Finger-CAM or conversational, you WANT to see what's happening before the green thingy.

Chuck and spindle ... Get the largest you think you ever need to put in the drawbar, and if possible, pay extra for a good brand of chuck!
There is nothing worse than having to re-bore jaws because an otherwise well prepared jaw does not repeat when a job returns!


Now, while y'all getting the flamethrower warmed up, a disclaimer:

I am not a huge volume production place, rather a jobshop where anything from 5 through 1000 pieces get machined.
Currently there are 4 lathe setups running, TI, Stainless, Stainless and a 4140, sizes range from 3/16 through 4 1/2" dia.
The little fucker is the only cutoff, rest are slugs, one is 18" long.
By day's end, all but one will go through 2 more setups on 2 or more lathes and will be finished.
Tomorrow, rinse and repeat but different parts and sizes.
By Friday, two of them will be running TI, the other two will be turned off because parts cannot fit in them.

If your operation is different, then my above opinion stands.

Otherwise, got the flame suit properly buttoned, so bring it on!

SeymourDumore said:

Wow!!!


Chip conveyer... . No thanks.

Conversational ... No, thanks.

Click to expand...

So you spend 1/2 your time shoveling chips?
And the other 1/2 of you time programming by hand?
When do you find the time to push cycle start?

I'm sorry, but conversation on a cnc lathe is a must have.
Do your lathes run off of a tape?

Tailstock whether you need it or not. Because at some point you will need it. Or if you ever sell, you won't get squat for the machine without the TS.

Parts catcher is up to you, but you will use it. And again, resale. Nice on those high number part jobs, but I use it on low qtys too. If I use the parting tool, I use the PC.

Buy the largest through hole you can find. My new rig has been awesome with the 2 5/8" Ø hole instead of 2". Lot less sawing blanks.

Coolant. HP is the way to go. I don't have HP, but 145PSI. That makes a heck of an improvement over most standard coolant pressures of 40-50PSI.

Chip conveyor, chip conveyor, chip conveyor. Yeah. Get a chip conveyor. If you buy a new lathe without one, you should get smacked in the head with a tack hammer.

Order up a collet chuck with the same capacity as the through hole right away too. Power chucks have more versatility, but have fun with tool clearance. Plus you can crank up the RPMs.


.................................................

Mtndew said:

So you spend 1/2 your time shoveling chips?
And the other 1/2 of you time programming by hand?
When do you find the time to push cycle start?

I'm sorry, but conversation on a cnc lathe is a must have.
Do your lathes run off of a tape?

Click to expand...

Well...
On the TI job, the cycle time is 19 minutes.
Took 12 minutes to program ( and nowhere did I say programmed by hand, but that's on you ).
It takes 15 parts to remove enough material that it needs to be "shoveled" out, and the diaper change takes maybe 2 minutes.

So, every 5 hours chips get "shoveled" out and then dumped into the proper barrel, which BTW is NOT on the shop floor taking up valuable
space, rather it's in a separate dirty area, along with the other barrels for Stainless, Steel, AL, Nickel, EDM wire and mixed garbage.

As far as the conversational thing..
If I use the PC to draw up the part, then why should I not use the same PC to program it on?
Got conversational on 3 machines, never bothered to waste 1 minute to look into any of them.

SeymourDumore said:

Well...
On the TI job, the cycle time is 19 minutes.
Took 12 minutes to program ( and nowhere did I say programmed by hand, but that's on you ).

Click to expand...

Ahh you were being sneaky! You use Cad/Cam to program your lathe.

SND said:

The only Turning centers I've seen so far with 2 speed windings are Okuma, haven't seen it noted on any other brands. Do any others do it? There's not much for High Torque options in the 8"-10" chuck size machines. If the Genos 400 had a better tailstock design I'd reconsider it, but maybe I should check if they got options.. though it seems more $ than a QTU350 so far...

Regarding programmable/servo tailstocks, only 2 I saw so far that have it Mazak and Hyundai-wia. Doosan lynx's and all the others appear to be drag type(didn't check mori, unlikely I will anyhow) I didn't see mention of the others brands offering upgrades on it.

I'll skip on live tools, little point getting C axis/mill without going with Y and by then its beyond what I can swing $ without payment terms...

Anyway, I'm gonna do my best to get something in here this year, short of a major catastrophe. Body is tired, and I keep losing too much time and $ not having one.

Mazak is still the most popular brand in my area, along with haas(not on my list), nobody else hardly ever sold a machine here.

Click to expand...

Look into an Okuma LB3000. You will get the 2-speed motor winding, a servo tailstock, and whatever other options you want. The OSP control is light-years ahead of the Mazak control, especially if you plan on servo/axis load monitoring, or macro/variable programming.

My last job had (3) new Mazak's with the "Smart" control - QTS350 machines, with A2-11 spindles & 12" Kitagawa chucks, with over 3" bar capacity. (A little fuzzy on the bar-capacity, but they were big.) Terrible support on the "Smart" control, and now that Mazak has changed their controls again, the new "Smart" control loses a full QWERTY keyboard, which literally is like backing up in time, and makes you shift-finger-poke-shift just like a 90's Fanuc keyboard...

You will be doing yourself a dis-service, if you don't at least get a quote & demo on the equivalent Okuma LB, or Mori NLX machine... (Grumbling under my breath - If Mazak didn't have Mazatrol, there'd be no reason to buy one - ever...)

Buy a quick-change chuck adapter from Positrol. They are SWEET!
Quick Change CHucks & Tool Chuck System by Positrol

And then take DavidN's advice, and put a collet system on it, so you can crank up the RPM...

personally if you are doing short runs get some quick change toolholders like capto
the upfront cost will be pretty high but you easly make it back on reducing setup.
keep the holder that are supplied with the machine to get some offball tooling when needed.

if you go with another brand then mazak i would suggest a siemens controll with shopturn

Thanks for all the info everyone.

A lot of the chips I make tend to be long/stringy. Qty would be 5-30 in most cases, once in a while 50-100 for easier parts. I'm guessing a lathe without conveyor just drops them on a screen at the bottom? (conveyor price isn't too horrible though, so probably worth it even if only used a bit) higher psi coolant pump is a good bit of $ though...

One thing I really have to keep in mind is power use, hoping to run this on my 20hp PP(and ideally not have to buy a bigger one). The service is less(Only 200A/1ph) in the new shop than current one, so 30-50hp spindles aren't gonna happen. 15-20hp is about it. I'd rather not have to put it in the current shop, but thought about it, power wouldn't be an issue here, but its less convenient than having it all together. I'm also a bit worried of the integral spindle, obviously all the higher end machines got them, but its also a lot more stuff in one assembly, and surely a ton more $ and time when it poops itself, vs a belted one that you can more easily rebuild, or swap motor alone.

Hyundai-wia offers Siemens controls, 828D I think. But there's been a lot of not so good reviews of siemens controls on here, it is usually less $ than the fanuc option though. I would like to avoid having another cad/cam upgrade though(I currently use onecnc for the VMC)

David n, how do you find the tailstock on the Lynx220LC? did they mention if the had a programmable/servo option to move it in and out all the way? most of the hydraulic types only appear to have about 4" quill travel.

Doosan now has a fully programmable tailstock on their Lynx machines. They had one out at IMTS. Not sure of the price over the drag style I have.