Turning tool for ID and OD

BRIAN.T · Apr 4, 2019

I'm pretty new to lathe work, so forgive me if this is blindingly obviously to all of you. But Ive been programming a lot of 2 spindle mill turn parts, and a great deal of them have very little work on the sub spindle. Sometimes all I need is to face ID and OD chamfer, then into the parts catcher.

Also I've only got 12 stations so it's nice to keep multi purpose type tools in my machine.

So is there a tool that can rough and finish an OD, plus do some light ID work. I know some insert drills can do those type of operations, but I can't imagine they are particularly well suited for them.

Vancbiker · Apr 4, 2019

Dorian Tool makes double insert boring bars that do exactly what you are asking. Some shops make their own for high volume jobs to eliminate turret indexes. Those often have a boring insert on one side and a grooving or threading insert on the other.

One high volume builder of hydraulic cylinders used 3 inserts on one bar. One side of the bar had a CNM style insert for facing and boring to thread minor diameter. The opposite side of the bar had a threading insert at the end of the bar and a grooving insert an inch or so from the end and on a larger radius than the threader. With that set up they faced, ID chamfered and bored, relief grooved, threaded, and OD chamfered a cylinder tube with no turret indexing. It was pretty slick. 3 or 4 of that style tool in the turret with different groove inserts and thread inserts covered a wide range of cylinder sizes.

BRIAN.T · Apr 4, 2019

Vancbiker said:
Dorian Tool makes double insert boring bars that do exactly what you are asking. Some shops make their own for high volume jobs to eliminate turret indexes. Those often have a boring insert on one side and a grooving or threading insert on the other.

Very interesting, that looks like it might be exactly what I need. Thanks

litlerob1 · Apr 5, 2019

You can check these out also;ISCAR Hole Making Product Line

I use these pretty regularly on a Gang Lathe (limited stations)

R

SeymourDumore · Apr 5, 2019

BRIAN.T said:
So is there a tool that can rough and finish an OD, ..

Assholic response ON!

Every tool ever made which can rough an OD can also finish that OD.
Similarly, every tool ever made which can rough an ID can also finish it.
Question: ... oh, never mind!

Assholic response off!

Otherwise, there are double ended boring bars to do your roughing on ID and OD, and their twin in another station can do the finishing of both for you.

Limy Sami · Apr 5, 2019

There's also these Internal Tool - All Lathe Tools

Don't forget you can bore etc with say a cc type insert boring bar then reversing the spindle use the same tool for external work.

mountie · Apr 5, 2019

You haven't specified size, but Iscar has this solid carbide tool for drilling, facing, internal and external threading: PICCO-MFT It's intended for Swiss machines, so it may be too small for you.

NAST555 · Apr 5, 2019

Yeah this ISCAR Cutting Tools - Metal Working Tools - Multifunction Tools - Drilling Ext Face Int. Turning - DRG-MF

I have a 12mm and 16mm when they were still called DR-MF and a 25mm DRG-MF (only difference is the DRG can take a grooving insert,not sure if they even make the DR's anymore) and they work great! The only limitation is the 2.25XD depth.

I haven't done much OD turning with them but I do face,drill and bore with the 25mm on a production job. When drilling I use external coolant on the smaller two (haven't bothered to pipe them up yet) but on the 25 I blow through the centre. It makes a big difference.

BRIAN.T · Apr 5, 2019

litlerob1 said:
You can check these out also;ISCAR Hole Making Product Line

I use these pretty regularly on a Gang Lathe (limited stations)

R

I love this idea, for this tool to work you would do the ID work on the x positive quadrant, and the OD on X negative quadrant correct, or vise versa? My sub spindle side has limited travel below center line, I'll see if I can make it work! Thanks.

BRIAN.T · Apr 5, 2019

SeymourDumore said:
Assholic response ON!

Every tool ever made which can rough an OD can also finish that OD.
Similarly, every tool ever made which can rough an ID can also finish it.
Question: ... oh, never mind!

Assholic response off!

Otherwise, there are double ended boring bars to do your roughing on ID and OD, and their twin in another station can do the finishing of both for you.

Ha, i knew what I was getting myself into when I posted the question! Thanks for the tip.

litlerob1 · Apr 5, 2019

BRIAN.T said:
I love this idea, for this tool to work you would do the ID work on the x positive quadrant, and the OD on X negative quadrant correct, or vise versa? My sub spindle side has limited travel below center line, I'll see if I can make it work! Thanks.

Be aware, you're going to deal with Chatter.

R

SeymourDumore · Apr 5, 2019

BRIAN.T said:
I love this idea, for this tool to work you would do the ID work on the x positive quadrant, and the OD on X negative quadrant correct, or vise versa? My sub spindle side has limited travel below center line, I'll see if I can make it work! Thanks.

Yes, that is something you will have to contend with.
My SL cannot travel in -X far enough for this tool to be usable, but the way I use these is on high-production parts is to mount 2 of them in the turret.
One tool does the roughing on ID and OD, the other does the finishing on ID and OD.

On the Mori however, I have enough travel, so the inner insert can rough the OD and the ID, while the outer finishes both.
The downside is having to reverse the spindle in-between each.

litlerob1 · Apr 5, 2019

SeymourDumore said:
Yes, that is something you will have to contend with.
My SL cannot travel in -X far enough for this tool to be usable, but the way I use these is on high-production parts is to mount 2 of them in the turret.
One tool does the roughing on ID and OD, the other does the finishing on ID and OD.

On the Mori however, I have enough travel, so the inner insert can rough the OD and the ID, while the outer finishes both.
The downside is having to reverse the spindle in-between each.

I'm not sure what you guys are talking about. In the picture I posted (for reference to the conversation) the upper insert would be for Boring, and the lower insert would be for OD. IF it's in a Bar holder, the travel only needs to be enough to reach just like a regular Bar. No need to change spindle direction either. Maybe you are talking about a different Tool, if so sorry.

R

SeymourDumore · Apr 5, 2019

litlerob1 said:
I'm not sure what you guys are talking about. In the picture I posted (for reference to the conversation) the upper insert would be for Boring, and the lower insert would be for OD. IF it's in a Bar holder, the travel only needs to be enough to reach just like a regular Bar. No need to change spindle direction either. Maybe you are talking about a different Tool, if so sorry.

R

Rob

What I was saying is that IF you have enough X travel, then you can use the INNER insert to rough the OD in +X with M03, and rough the ID in -X with M04.
Then, for finishing you'd use the OUTER insert to finish the ID in +X with M03, and finish the OD in -X with M04.

Very useful if you have limited number of turret positions, such as a 4 station Haas TL.

Take for example a part that needs tight OD, ID and say an external thread, and you're feeding from a bar.
You need to:
Rough the od
Drill the hole
Rough the ID
Finish the OD
Finish the ID
Thread OD
Cutoff

That's normally a 7 separate tool job, but all ya' got's is 4 stations!
So, with the double ended bar:

Station 1 is a drill
Station 2 is the double ended bar for rough and finish OD and ID
Station 3 is thread
Station 4 is cutoff

F'n Magic ( and no chickens involved either

)

Vancbiker · Apr 5, 2019

If making your own double insert tooling, Kennametal (and probably others) make a wide range of insert cartridges that work well with 1.25 or larger boring bars. Use a piece of 1144 ground bar for the blank and mill in the pockets for the cartridges.

litlerob1 · Apr 5, 2019

SeymourDumore said:
F'n Magic ( and no chickens involved either )

Friggin racist!!

SeymourDumore · Apr 6, 2019

Vancbiker said:
work well with 1.25 or larger boring bars..

Vanc

I have an old-old school Kennametal bar that takes TCMT inserts on both sides to fit into a .900min bore.
No flat bottom, but through it will do absolutely fine!

Vancbiker · Apr 6, 2019

SeymourDumore said:
Vanc

I have an old-old school Kennametal bar that takes TCMT inserts on both sides to fit into a .900min bore.
No flat bottom, but through it will do absolutely fine!

I don't recall seeing insert cartridges small enough to do that with, but never really looked. The DIY 2 and 3 insert bars I've seen were 1.5" to 3" diameter shanks.

Turning tool for ID and OD

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