What's new
What's new

Turret positioning issue, advice/resolution needed

Anthony N

Plastic
Joined
Jun 5, 2019
Machine builder: Monarch
Model: Predator
Year: 1995
Controller: FANUC 18-TB
Turret: Sauter VDI 30 with live tooling

Description: I bought this machine, good value with full c-axis and live tooling. We came across two issues.

1) Broken t-nuts on the turret backplate likely from a crash from original owner, replaced nuts and realigned turret.

2) The major issue: machine has a bad angular encoder, called Sauter for a replacement, installed.

Turret will now index and lock in MDI and JOG but even though I taught the new encoder to pos.1 when I MDI it to any position it is one off.
I receive a 2075 alarm "Turret position verify failed" and in the machine book, this is a machine builder alarm.

Called Monarch asking if there is maybe a turret home out procedure and thus far nothing.

Any idea where I should troubleshoot on this machine?
 
No, if I turn it on and ref home, I don't believe this machine indexes the turret as a part of its normal procedure.

The issue comes up if I MDI "T0500" it won't go to the correct position, usually one off so it will be at T0400, then the alarm comes up. Also in MEM it does it.
 
is this a hydraulic with 1 motor for the turret index and live tool or another configuration? the alarm sounds like a prox isnt seeing what the control wants.
 
I have an emco with a sauter turret so this might not be the same. I had a similar issue once when I moved my machine and hooked it back up to power. I flipped two of the wires coming in on the 3 phase hookup at the switch and it solved it. I'm assuming it has something to do with polarity an a AC current being changed to DC but I honestly don't know. You can try it on yours but can't say for sure that's the problem.

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk
 
Sounds like Monarch may have a turret position 1 prox.
Look at your electrical manual.
The Sauter usually has an led on the back of the encoder to allow for timing the #1 position.
If the machine side is faulting, the ladder is missing a input.
Did you call the Sydney Ohio monarch office? They usually help me fairly quickly.
 
@ifixcnc yes, you are correct, the encoder does have an LED teach button, that is what I used when teaching it. There possibly may be a prox for pos 1. I'll look into it.

And I did call monarch and they have been helpful but no thoughts on what to do to fix it.
 
T-nuts from Sauter are crap. I made my own from 4145 and added little more material all around to beef them up.

"Called Sauter". Who? Where? I haven't been able to find a contact other than Germany.

I don't know if the 18 T control has a data page that keeps track of active tool like the M control has. On occasion, my 18m loses track of tool in spindle. Simply go to the data page and change to the active tool number.

Could be the control thinks it has the right tool but Monarch says no. Or it could be Monarch has a prox. sensor that is not functioning.
 
......I don't know if the 18 T control has a data page that keeps track of active tool like the M control has. On occasion, my 18m loses track of tool in spindle. Simply go to the data page and change to the active tool number. ....

The method of tracking turret position will be determined by how the machine builder wrote their ladder logic. Could be anything from a simple counter with a compare function to a full PMC axis.
 
@Alonso they have a US office in Michigan....and yes it is in the ladder for tracking and I've found the node giving off the code, I just don't understand ladder code.
 
T-nuts from Sauter are crap. I made my own from 4145 and added little more material all around to beef them up.

I'm pretty sure the original t-nuts are designed specifically to be the weak point, for crash protection. Not sure if installing stronger ones is a good idea, but I guess it's subjective, like the removal of the alignment pins.

I don't know if the 18 T control has a data page that keeps track of active tool like the M control has. On occasion, my 18m loses track of tool in spindle. Simply go to the data page and change to the active tool number.

Could be the control thinks it has the right tool but Monarch says no. Or it could be Monarch has a prox. sensor that is not functioning.

The method of tracking turret position will be determined by how the machine builder wrote their ladder logic. Could be anything from a simple counter with a compare function to a full PMC axis.

Most modernish lathes I have been around, the procedure for resetting the turret is pretty specific...

FWIW, our Doosan with Sauter turret and 18i-T, the turret position is indeed stored in a PMC data bit.

I'm not sure if that means much to OP though, as the way ours is integrated is a bit complicated - the turret motor is switched between PMC axis when it's rotating the turret, and full CNC axis when it's driving the tool spindle, and resetting the turret rotation also requires cycling APC/APZ like any other absolute axis.
 
2) The major issue: machine has a bad angular encoder, called Sauter for a replacement, installed.

On my Takisawa TC-1 the turret encoder positioning is very fussy if the clocking isn't set perfect the turret can do all kinds of crazy things. Not sure if yours has a permanently fixed clocking or not.
 
Ok everyone. Machine is back up and running. It was something so stupid, but unforeseeable. It seems whoever owned this machine before, obviously had problems with the encoder. That's why I changed it.

But they definitely did some fiddling around in there because as a last effort I looked at the junction box, that splits the wires from the encoder to the wires leading into the turret.

Bit 1 and 2 wires, white(1) yellow (2) were swapped. No doubt some maintenance guy trying to fix it from the previous owner.

Once we color matched them all was well.
 








 
Back
Top