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UK market VMCs

  • Thread starter Luke.kerbey
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Luke.kerbey

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Hi,

We’re upgrading our VMC soon and I’m free to suggest anything at this stage.

What companies have a strong presence in the UK that sell decent VMCs?

So far it’s hurco, hass (not my choice) or XYZ.

My boss is heavily sold on a company that has top service and 24hour turnarounds, such as Sodick in the UK. So anything that can do that is pretty much a shortlist.


Thanks.
Luke
 
Hi,

We’re upgrading our VMC soon and I’m free to suggest anything at this stage.

What companies have a strong presence in the UK that sell decent VMCs?

So far it’s hurco, hass (not my choice) or XYZ.

My boss is heavily sold on a company that has top service and 24hour turnarounds, such as Sodick in the UK. So anything that can do that is pretty much a shortlist.


Thanks.
Luke

What are you upgrading from, and what are your expectations from a new machine?
 
Currently have a XYZ Vulcan 810D with Siemens control.

Current expectations are wide open but what would suit us is,

- 20/30 tool changer ideally
- 8k spindle/ decent torque.
- very strong and fast conversational controller as we do lots of jobbing and one offs.

What were after is a general purpose, well equipped, up to date, well made machine. Nothing really specialist.
 
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20"? 30"? 40" oops. I mean

500, 750, 1000mm? 1500? How big a machine are you needing.
How big are your parts.

Small parts near net shape, or roughing from a big block of metal?
 
Hi,


The machine size is less important, we have a 800x500x500 XYZ, so around that size but not critical.

Whats important are who has UK based service/training and showroom.
 
Service varies a bit by region, the likelihood of true 24hr turnaround on service callouts is going to depend on how close you are to the service centre, being that most machine tool vendors have only one service centre in the UK, and have a service radius that they will travel within, and hire third party contractors outside of that radius. Whereabouts in the UK are you?

Another thing to consider is that if you are a small shop, the likelihood of receiving true 24hr turnaround is pretty slim, as all their bigger customers will get priority. That's just how it is unfortunately. Bearing that in mind, you need to go with one that has a good reputation for taking care of small customers. I'm not truly aware of that landscape in England, but I can give you a list of who to avoid on that count, it is a short list, and it is basically "Mazak".

How has your experience been with XYZ? They are strongly represented, and their Siemens based machines should be pretty solid. I have never used shopmill, but others seem pleased with it. Based in Devon IIRC, but I think they may be one of the few with additional service centres and/or showrooms.

Hurco have never left us hanging, but being pretty distant from their HQ we never received (or expected) 24hr turnaround. Service was always scheduled with a more local third party, apart from twice when they flew one of their own engineers up.

Doosan are well represented by Mills, and are good solid machines, but the basic VMC's are all Fanuc equipped and Fanuc's conversational is pretty pathetic. Fanuc only if you will embrace CAM IMHO.

Member Barbter should have a pretty good handle on service support in England, but he doesn't frequent the site too often any more.

Hurco VMX would likely be a good fit for you because of the strengths of the control, but you might need to temper your expectations of a true 24hr turnaround, and honestly, unless you are Rolls Royce or GE or some such, that's likely to be the case across the board.

Okuma and DMG Mori both have UK showrooms and service centres, but suspect those are not on your shortlist. Different price bracket, and neither have outstanding conversational capability.

Most of the Taiwanese and Korean machines are represented by somebody or other in the UK, but again, those are pretty much universally Fanuc, so can be generally ruled out by your criteria.

I have no idea how Haas support is in the UK, but they would pretty much always be right at the bottom of my shopping list anyway so I've never enquired.
 
How have you found service with XYZ on your existing machine?

XYZ, Haas, Doosan and Hurco seem to be the ones with the most showrooms and service engineers around the UK from what I've seen, I'd personally be knocking Haas straight off the list due to the potential for control support being dropped after a period as short as 10 years.

The above comments about potential of 24 hour turnaround on service seem pretty sensible to me, your exact location is going to be an important factor there for sure.

Fanuc probably isn't going to suit you well if you're after conversational but service engineers that can work on Fanuc seem pretty common so you could always fall back on them outside of the warranty period if the MTB can't help you fast enough, I'd be looking for independent service engineers that are familiar with Siemens in your area as a backup option.
 
Thanks all that have taken the time to reply.
I’m in south east England, most places are in the midlands in the uk so it’s 3 hours or so drive.

We get exemplary service from Sodick because we’ve built a good relationship with them. We can get pretty much instant phone advice and service tech visits pretty pronto. And we’re looking for that in terms of a VMC manufacturer.

The hurco machines fit the bill and Ive heard good reports of service but struggling to find a UK distributor. Does anyone have a contact?

I personally like the Siemens shopmill and the current XYZ mill is solid. However our electronics man hates Siemens and my boss doesn’t like XYZs attitude to service.

Anything from +GF+ machining solutions is banned in the tool room because they fall short in every aspect!!

DMG is on the list but as you say the controllers aren’t up to it. I’ve never even heard of an okuma in the UK?

Im sort of happy with a heidenhain on a decent machine but the combo I’m looking for doesn’t work.

My boss is on my page about the hurco. But I need to come up with other machines to really compare what’s good for us. So a mazak is on the cards too. Question is what is mazak support like in the UK?

At the moment there’s not a discussed limit on budget and we certainly aren’t looking to buy cheap. My boss has a reputation of paying good money for good machines.
 
Thanks all that have taken the time to reply.
I’m in south east England, most places are in the midlands in the uk so it’s 3 hours or so drive.

We get exemplary service from Sodick because we’ve built a good relationship with them. We can get pretty much instant phone advice and service tech visits pretty pronto. And we’re looking for that in terms of a VMC manufacturer.

The hurco machines fit the bill and Ive heard good reports of service but struggling to find a UK distributor. Does anyone have a contact?

I personally like the Siemens shopmill and the current XYZ mill is solid. However our electronics man hates Siemens and my boss doesn’t like XYZs attitude to service.

Anything from +GF+ machining solutions is banned in the tool room because they fall short in every aspect!!

DMG is on the list but as you say the controllers aren’t up to it. I’ve never even heard of an okuma in the UK?

Im sort of happy with a heidenhain on a decent machine but the combo I’m looking for doesn’t work.

My boss is on my page about the hurco. But I need to come up with other machines to really compare what’s good for us. So a mazak is on the cards too. Question is what is mazak support like in the UK?

At the moment there’s not a discussed limit on budget and we certainly aren’t looking to buy cheap. My boss has a reputation of paying good money for good machines.

Hurco are direct from their HQ in High Wycombe Contact Hurco Europe Ltd. - CNC Machine Tool Sales

DMG have options for plain Siemens on their lower end machines, like the M1 that lumley mentioned above. Also direct DMG MORI UK Ltd.

Doosan do offer Heidenhain and Siemens options on some of their machines, but anything they have in stock in the UK is probably going to be Fanuc. Agents are Mills CNC, might be worth asking. Business Manager’s Details | Mills CNC

Plenty of Okumas in the UK, agent is NCMT, HQ in Surrey NCMT

Mazak support sucks in the UK unless you are a big shop with lots of their machines.
 
Hi Barbter,

Yer to be fair I’ve used many XYZ machines and only their manual lathes are hopeless, most other stuff is modestly decent. The current Vulcan we have is a great machine, it’s just old and breaking down frequently.

I’m of an age where I can soak up any new controller pretty quick and I have the patience to read a stack of manuals. So I’m pretty open to any controller that’s versatile. I’ve had formal training on TNC-620 so Heidenhain is on the cards but I think something else will be better.


Also, it’s a shame to hear about Mazaks service. I’ve just been eyeballing one of thier machines.

Thanks for the links, I couldn’t find hurcos showroom anywhere for some odd reason.


I will check out all your other suggestions guys. Thanks a bunch.
 
Just looking at Quaser and they seem pretty high spec. Have you got one? What’s the service like in the UK?
 
Hi Barbter,

I’ve found the contact you mentioned on LinkedIn, we share some connections already, I’m going to contact him about the Vulcan VMC 850L and the Quaser MV134E. They seem a good company with good presence. Thanks for your input.
 
Hi Luke,
I'm not sure if you got a machine ordered up? we too are looking at a new VMC and the options are VAST!
XYZ, Dugard, Doosan, Colchester, Vulcan, Feeler, Leadwell, Spinner, Quaser, Pinnacle, Style, to name a few all do simple 3 axis VMC's around the 600 - 800 size. there is almost too much choice.
the short list for us is the Doosan DNM4500,XYZ 800HD, Dugard 760xp and the Pinnacle LV85. all on siemens 828d shop mill.
Just haven't decided yet which one we want.
anyone got any helpful input?
 
We haven’t made any visits yet, as other things have become a priority. What was particular about the tools that made your short list? We’re still leaning hurco, but will be looking at others probably with a Siemens control.

Hurco especially as they quoted us the same price as XYZ for equivalent size mills. However the XYZ lacks serious reliability and service tech help.
 
The pinicale LV85 has a good spec for the money and is quite a heavy unit which usually helps with rigidity. Just don’t know of many of them about. The xyz machines appear to have plenty KW on the spindle and are one of the cheapest and they keep a good selection in stock, the dugard machine is very reasonably priced and good spec but again don’t know many places round here that have one. The doosan I feel is the favourite but is the dearest on my list. We want to be able to push through a 50mm Udrill or M30 tapping but still have a machine on relatively small footprint.
It’s a bit of a minefield, they are all good machines but which one will we be happiest with ��
 
Hurco must be the only machine we didn’t get a quote for. Do they run their own control like haas or do you get it with the Siemens control?
 
Hurco use there own control. I ran a poll on a face book group and they came out top by a mile for user friendliness.
I spoke to blokes who have used a few different brands and they all said hurco were the best. That’s in the context of control and actual machine in terms or rigidity , precision, etc.
 
Hurco must be the only machine we didn’t get a quote for. Do they run their own control like haas or do you get it with the Siemens control?

Hurco use there own control. I ran a poll on a face book group and they came out top by a mile for user friendliness.
I spoke to blokes who have used a few different brands and they all said hurco were the best. That’s in the context of control and actual machine in terms or rigidity , precision, etc.

It's important to know what you are getting with a Hurco. They are a fairly generic Taiwanese frame with a nice control bolted on. You can get a similar machine from 10 different Taiwanese MTB's, but you pay a premium for the control.

Next, there are two levels / grades of machines that Hurco sell, in the case of VMC's these are the VM series and the VMX series. You get the same control on both, but the VM is a very lightweight economy machine. In the case of the VM series, the control premium probably makes the machine cost more than it's really worth compared to an equivalent Taiwanese machine with a generic Siemens or Fanuc control. The VMX series are much heavier more powerful machines and are in a different cost bracket where the premium you pay for the control makes much less difference.

This makes the VMX a better value proposition than the VM IMO.
 
Maybe we should look at the cost of a Hurco vmx, can't be many machines we haven't priced lately. I'm still a little concerned about the Hurco control, our other mill has Fidia control and I was thinking that the Siemens shopmill would be a good alternative but how easy is the Hurco to get used to?
 








 
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