UMC-1000 B axis repair
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  1. #1
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    Default UMC-1000 B axis repair

    Hello all - Our 1019 UMC-1000 raised a B axis 6.103 alarm. HFO has not been able to repair it or determine the root cause of it. Has anyone out there had similar issues? If so, what was the result?

    The machine was crashed pretty hard a few months after installation, including performing a head alignment. HFO repaired it, but that was more then a year ago and far beyond any warrantee. It has been running fine since the repair and has not encountered any abnormal occurrences such a crash. The alarm came while running a program. WE reset and cleared the alarm to continue running, but it reoccurs without consistency. Kept track and did not find any related variables.

    HFO troubleshooting has followed factory requirements, resulting in complete dis-assembly the B axis, with no solution.

    Any other experiences?

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    thinking out loud, did the drive get replaced as part of the repair? if not and another drives are the same try swapping an axis and see if the problem follows.

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    Yeah, that was the second step performed 11 weeks ago. Even swapped out 2 separate drives just to be sure.

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    According to google, that error is "axis servo error too large". Which means the drive told it to move a given amount and it tried but the feedback from the encoder doesn't match the position it should have moved to.

    That means either the servo didn't move as it should have or it did but the encoder gave bad information back to the drive. You might be able to determine if the axis is moving the commanded amount with a DTI or something, but if not, then in my experience the most likely culprit is the encoder itself (or the cable back to the drive). A good tech should be able to watch the signal coming back from the encoder and capture any errors. Even a shit tech should be able to determine whether they are ultimately getting correct feedback from the encoder when the error pops up. And if the factory is involved, they damn sure should be able to figure this out easily, as they designed and built the control.

    I think you need a better technician working your case and I think you need to escalate with the Haas factory. And I think you need to get a refund on that outrageous repair bill that has already been racked up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SRT Mike View Post
    ... A good tech should be able to watch the signal coming back from the encoder and capture any errors...
    Yes, the tech did track the encoder and test the cable. That's why they suggested replacing the motor (which has the encoder bundled as Haas does do most assemblies)...

    Quote Originally Posted by SRT Mike View Post
    And if the factory is involved, they damn sure should be able to figure this out easily, as they designed and built the control...
    The factory has been involved since the 2nd day. But they seem to not have a grasp on it. They did admit they have no procedures for much of what is going on here.

    Quote Originally Posted by SRT Mike View Post
    I think you need a better technician working your case and I think you need to escalate with the Haas factory. And I think you need to get a refund on that outrageous repair bill that has already been racked up...
    I completely agree. But really, I just need our machine up. Jobs are backing up! They have sent 2 other techs. We are considering to ask they take the machine back to the factory if they can't figure it out here

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    I would replace the cable, I know the tech tested it, but maybe it gets jostled around to just the right position for it looses a connection

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    Replace the motor, cables, amplifier. Maybe axis controller card (Not sure about nxgen) but a hard crash may have a mechanical effect as well.

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    Where are you in California? I know a guy who used to be a Haas tech who's out on his own now, and he's pretty sharp

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    Not too far from you - Carlsbad. What's his name?

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    Quote Originally Posted by toadofftheroad View Post
    Not too far from you - Carlsbad. What's his name?
    His name is Mike, I'll send him a link to this thread, so he'll probably PM you

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    This sounds like an axis brake problem. Having said that the brakes on the 1000 are much better than the 750. I am in the middle of a b axis brake repair on a 1000 right not. Haas used a parker back up ringon the brake o-ring that is wrong for the job, and we can't get from Haas anyway. I waterjeted a teflon back up ring and it works much better that OEM stock.

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    Default Any updates?

    Quote Originally Posted by toadofftheroad View Post
    Hello all - Our 1019 UMC-1000 raised a B axis 6.103 alarm. HFO has not been able to repair it or determine the root cause of it. Has anyone out there had similar issues? If so, what was the result?

    The machine was crashed pretty hard a few months after installation, including performing a head alignment. HFO repaired it, but that was more then a year ago and far beyond any warrantee. It has been running fine since the repair and has not encountered any abnormal occurrences such a crash. The alarm came while running a program. WE reset and cleared the alarm to continue running, but it reoccurs without consistency. Kept track and did not find any related variables.

    HFO troubleshooting has followed factory requirements, resulting in complete dis-assembly the B axis, with no solution.

    Any other experiences?
    Hello,

    I'm having the same issue with our UMC 500 on the B axis. The HAAS tech mentioned something about taking out the entire rotary table and sending it to California (I'm in Texas). We're definitely getting the "Servo Error too Large" as well. The only difference is that I try to home the B axis and it'll move in the negative direction as far as it usually goes but when it comes back toward zero, the load meter maxes out at 236% and kicks out the servo error too large alarm. Even when trying to jog w/o zero the load meter on the B axis goes higher toward machine B zero. Was there anything that was done to fix it?

    Thanks in advance for any information.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hamradio View Post
    This sounds like an axis brake problem. Having said that the brakes on the 1000 are much better than the 750. I am in the middle of a b axis brake repair on a 1000 right not. Haas used a parker back up ringon the brake o-ring that is wrong for the job, and we can't get from Haas anyway. I waterjeted a teflon back up ring and it works much better that OEM stock.
    So the machine does powerup fine with B working as expected, but borks out while running the program? Does B respond to hand jogging?

    Ya, sounds to me like a brake problem. It could be as simple as adding a dwell after the B clamp / unclamp commands.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CNCGuyR2 View Post
    Hello,

    I'm having the same issue with our UMC 500 on the B axis. The HAAS tech mentioned something about taking out the entire rotary table and sending it to California (I'm in Texas). We're definitely getting the "Servo Error too Large" as well. The only difference is that I try to home the B axis and it'll move in the negative direction as far as it usually goes but when it comes back toward zero, the load meter maxes out at 236% and kicks out the servo error too large alarm. Even when trying to jog w/o zero the load meter on the B axis goes higher toward machine B zero. Was there anything that was done to fix it?

    Thanks in advance for any information.
    Can you handwheel in the negative direction any amount with no problem?
    And from any position, as soon as you try to rotate positive, it will alarm?

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    As the OP thought I would update - We ended up replacing the entire brake assy. The platen and ring were seriously gouged up. Haas could not determine the cause. Appeared as though there was contamination between them or they were not true to each other upon installation. As the gouging increased, the out-of-round condition increased the friction, causing motor overcurrent.

    On a side note, we discovered the table was flat .005. The majority of the table was flat .001 and then the C0-C90 quadrant had a large dip. Haas said it had to be caused by a crash

    Also random - one day a couple weeks ago in the am we hit power up and the B axis decided to continue rotating all the way around. We caught it before it completed a full revolution, but it got to more than 180 deg past zero. We were able to bring it back and hit power up again without any more issues. Weird.

    Haas gives me the creeps...

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    Quote Originally Posted by toadofftheroad View Post

    Haas gives me the creeps...
    Their rotary axis seem to creep, that's for sure...

    I think they make a fine, usable generic 3-axis mill. I don't think I'd buy anything more exotic from them, that's for sure.

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    There seems to be a 1:1 ratio of Haas 4+ axis machines are garbage threads as there are Brothers are amazing threads on PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Milland View Post
    Their rotary axis seem to creep, that's for sure...

    I think they make a fine, usable generic 3-axis mill. I don't think I'd buy anything more exotic from them, that's for sure.
    To be fair, their SL20 lathes (3ax) were okay.
    Their ST20 being a wedge 'y' runs outta space fast....but IME isn't a bad machine.
    Not a lover of the DS30....old customer gone through a couple of drawtubes and actuators (all 1x complete assy that leaks like a sieve)....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Speedie View Post
    Replace the motor, cables, amplifier. Maybe axis controller card (Not sure about nxgen) but a hard crash may have a mechanical effect as well.
    (Holy shit... how are some of these people machinists?)

    If you make a bad part, do you make a new fixture, replace all the material, re-program the part and move the job to a different machine? Or do you figure out what the actual fucking problem is and fix THAT instead?

    The mind boggles...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Garwood View Post
    There seems to be a 1:1 ratio of Haas 4+ axis machines are garbage threads as there are Brothers are amazing threads on PM.
    Haas barely makes an “OK-ish” 3 axis mill………..

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