Un-FANUC'ing my VMC - Page 3
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  1. #41
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    The price of memory is tracked by several industry analysts. In 2010, around $12 per Gigabyte (not megabyte). In 2015, $4 per gigabyte. Now back in 1980, about $6M per gigabyte.

    But Fanuc is backwards enough they may still be using vacuum tubes or bubble memory, both of which are expensive.

    I'd guess Fanuc would give you the control, if you ordered and payed for maximum memory.

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    I've had 3 CNC machines. 2 with Fanuc controls, one with German, which I'll leave un-named. The first machine cost $85K 20 years ago. When I bought it I was totally new to the CNC world. The salesman told me there was an option for a control up grade, $2500, but that no one took it and it wasn't needed for the kind of work we do. This was just a 3 axis machine. But it turned out that the control was a 2 1/2 axis control. It could only move 2 axis simultaneously. The $2500 was to upgrade to a true 3 axis. After a considerable amount of research I found that if I changed one digit within the control it became a 3 axis. I don't know if the salesman knew this or not but I'm certain the machine builder did. Easy money! My two Fanuc controls have run for years w/o any issues. Can't say the same for the German control. And when it had problems service was hard to come by and they wanted to sell me a complete new control, for more than the machine was worth. That machine control is down again, we are going to scrap the machine and buy a new machine with... you guessed it, Fanuc controls.

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  4. #43
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    I was actually looking at a used 2008 Sharp SV-2412 (Taiwan made?) recently, because it would actually fit in my garage. It has a FANUC Oi MATE MC CNC CONTROL.

    I was also looking at a Kiwa/Excel Colt 510 VMC made in Singapore with a Series 0-M, but that was a much older machine, 1995-ish vintage, I think. It is a bigger footprint though.


    I'd like to be able to do simultaneous 3 axis machining.
    Also, not in the cards now, but I would like to have the ability to add a 4th axis, and at that time do simultaneous 4 axis machining.

    Are either of these controls worthwhile in that case?

  5. #44
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    Sherly you should start a new thread, What an Oi & O will do.

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    While he is here - the 0i will run a 4th axis but the 0i-Mate will only index.

    I would consider anything FANUC without an "i" to be well past end of life from a productivity perspective. We have a couple Moris with 0-Ms on the floor and while they will make good parts they will not be able to take advantage of modern tooling and toolpaths. One of ours is set up with a 4th axis indexer but I do not know if it will run a full 4th. Both are being replaced by a pair of Speedios.

    That said, as much as I joke about hating FANUC stuff the SV-2412 is a quite capable machine that is making me good money. It was pretty peppy in its day.

    I hope that helps.

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  9. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Finsta View Post
    While he is here - the 0i will run a 4th axis but the 0i-Mate will only index.

    I would consider anything FANUC without an "i" to be well past end of life from a productivity perspective. We have a couple Moris with 0-Ms on the floor and while they will make good parts they will not be able to take advantage of modern tooling and toolpaths. One of ours is set up with a 4th axis indexer but I do not know if it will run a full 4th. Both are being replaced by a pair of Speedios.

    That said, as much as I joke about hating FANUC stuff the SV-2412 is a quite capable machine that is making me good money. It was pretty peppy in its day.

    I hope that helps.
    Thanks! That's helpful!
    I think machtool is right and I might start a new thread discussing small footprint machines on a budget.

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    Did you sell the extra cable and bracket?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ewlsey View Post

    In the industrial world, up time is everything. If it's not running, it's not earning.
    If you turn your non-Fanuc machines off for 1 week every year, you even out how much time you lose on Fanuc machines going through the 9 step process of opening a program.

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  13. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by DethloffMfg View Post
    If you turn your non-Fanuc machines off for 1 week every year, you even out how much time you lose on Fanuc machines going through the 9 step process of opening a program.
    Can you elaborate on what the 9 steps are?

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    Quote Originally Posted by DethloffMfg View Post
    If you turn your non-Fanuc machines off for 1 week every year, you even out how much time you lose on Fanuc machines going through the 9 step process of opening a program.
    Ha! How true, I went up to a past employers to help them out, they have a Fanuc, I couldn’t believe how long it took to load a program.

    I can remember 6 or 7 steps from memory and know I’m missing some.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vancbiker View Post
    Can you elaborate on what the 9 steps are?
    1. Enter secret menu
    2. Press key that has no logical correlation to its use
    3. Input secret password
    4. Enter secret menu
    5. Press button that is grayed out, and by any other application would mean it is not available for use
    6. Order control part from Fanuc and pat yourself on the back because you know it will still be on the shelf for repairs in 60 years
    7. Seek old-timer wisdom to decipher your alarm code. Don't worry, it's the same code for your 2018 machine as it was on the 1992 model you're getting help from
    8. Insert RS-232-to-ribbon cable-to-defunct industrial control connector-to-floppy disc-to-USB adapter
    9. Press weird clothes-in-washing-machine looking button

    And you're done!

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  17. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by DethloffMfg View Post
    1. Enter secret menu
    2. Press key that has no logical correlation to its use
    3. Input secret password
    4. Enter secret menu
    5. Press button that is grayed out, and by any other application would mean it is not available for use
    6. Order control part from Fanuc and pat yourself on the back because you know it will still be on the shelf for repairs in 60 years
    7. Seek old-timer wisdom to decipher your alarm code. Don't worry, it's the same code for your 2018 machine as it was on the 1992 model you're getting help from
    8. Insert RS-232-to-ribbon cable-to-defunct industrial control connector-to-floppy disc-to-USB adapter
    9. Press weird clothes-in-washing-machine looking button

    And you're done!
    Interesting. Must be a special version.

    The Fanuc I was using tonight only needed.

    1 Edit mode
    2 Right softkey
    3 key-in desired program number
    4 press FWDSRCH softkey

    Switch to Memory mode and ready to run.

    I guess that I could see some folks having trouble with such a convoluted process. Probably trying to figure out what FWDSRCH means would turn their world upside down.

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  19. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vancbiker View Post
    Interesting. Must be a special version.

    The Fanuc I was using tonight only needed.

    1 Edit mode
    2 Right softkey
    3 key-in desired program number
    4 press FWDSRCH softkey

    Switch to Memory mode and ready to run.

    I guess that I could see some folks having trouble with such a convoluted process. Probably trying to figure out what FWDSRCH means would turn their world upside down.
    Picking hairs but, that assumes that you are loading from the active IO channel.

    It's not obvious to someone who doesn't understand how fanuc io channels work that you need to change it from serial to card etc., and the process to do so isn't exactly user friendly to the uninitiated, nor streamlined to those who are.

    If, for example, you have the serial port selected and want to load a program from card then the process is more or less as he described, artistic license aside.

    It's very hard to defend the UI of fanuc controls.

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  21. #54
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    I just ran a Fanuc for the first time in over a year, to load a program WAS nearly 9 steps.

    Edit
    Prog
    Special 1
    Nc Prog
    Oprt
    Input
    F Get
    F Name
    Exec
    Special 1
    DUI?
    Prog
    Another button I can’t remember the name
    Key through the list of programs or search
    Select program
    Mem
    Green button

    And, I would like to point out, all of the above is necessary for almost every program. Every time, to load off a ZIP drive, because the memory is so small.

    The above was how the MTB trained the machinists and myself how to load a program. Would love to know/understand this 4 step process.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gregormarwick View Post
    Picking hairs but, that assumes that you are loading from the active IO channel.

    It's not obvious to someone who doesn't understand how fanuc io channels work that you need to change it from serial to card etc., and the process to do so isn't exactly user friendly to the uninitiated, nor streamlined to those who are.

    If, for example, you have the serial port selected and want to load a program from card then the process is more or less as he described, artistic license aside.

    It's very hard to defend the UI of fanuc controls.
    Mainly a question... but do people switch between communication devices often?

    I would think that if you had the card that would be the only thing to use and if you only had RS232, well then.

    I know guys complain loads about keystrokes but on a Oi with a card it is
    1. Soft arrow to card
    2. Card
    3.I go the File input way here
    4/5 insert your file that you want to grab and the program number you want to assign it to (depending on how your control is setup, to either use card assigned names or the actual file name
    6. Input and it's done??

    On my Meldas it's pretty much the same.
    1. DIA IN/OUT
    2/3/4 soft key to card
    5. search for program number and type it in
    6. INPUT

    and on edit... do you guys drag and drop programs or something on other controls? Just trying to figure out how the wind should blow and the program gets on the control without pressing and buttons?

  23. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by NAST555 View Post

    and on edit... do you guys drag and drop programs or something on other controls? Just trying to figure out how the wind should blow and the program gets on the control without pressing and buttons?
    I post the program to a folder on the desktop, BrotherComm software is drag and drop. The screen keeps a directory of all the programs on my computer and on the machine. You can drag and drop either way. From the control side: Mem, program list, select the program and press go.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fal Grunt View Post
    I post the program to a folder on the desktop, BrotherComm software is drag and drop. The screen keeps a directory of all the programs on my computer and on the machine. You can drag and drop either way. From the control side: Mem, program list, select the program and press go.
    So I am not trying to be a dick here but that are still a few steps at the machine itself.
    I did have my meldas setup on a network but it bombed out, similar procedure if I am understanding you but my access was the card in the Meldas. Drag and drop but still have to pass it over to the control when you are there unless you want to run it directly off the card.
    With a Fanuc if I had to do the same and run it off a card it would be M198 sub call and go for it.

    I guess I understand where you guys are coming from but at times it sounds like some guys want a program to float off of their PC straight into the control via mental stimulation and run on its own.

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    I have 3 fanucs. I leave the programs in the controls. Calling up a program:

    Memory mode

    Oxxxx <down arrow>

    Program is active.

    Load a program from the card or cable:

    Edit mode

    Oxxxx <right softkey>
    <read>
    <exec>

    Punch to card or cable:

    Edit mode

    Oxxxx <right softkey>
    <punch>
    <exec>

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  27. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by NAST555 View Post
    So I am not trying to be a dick here but that are still a few steps at the machine itself
    I don't think your being a dick at all. There are always going to be multiple steps to load a program. My wife works with computer systems for a Fortune 500 company. They have many, many, many meetings about ONE mouse click when adapting a new software system. ONE MOUSE CLICK. Because hundreds of employees, making that one mouse click, hundreds of times PER DAY, costs MILLIONS of dollars over the life of the system. If they can eliminate ONE MOUSE CLICK, they save the company millions of dollars.

    Quote Originally Posted by NAST555 View Post
    I guess I understand where you guys are coming from but at times it sounds like some guys want a program to float off of their PC straight into the control via mental stimulation and run on its own.
    I do not think we have any fear of that ever happening. Can you imagine a machine shop with a dozen machines run by 4 to 6 guys by thought power alone? Half the day would be spent with the spindles slamming repeatedly into the tables.

    Quote Originally Posted by jancollc View Post
    I have 3 fanucs. I leave the programs in the controls.

    Load a program from the card or cable:

    Edit mode

    Oxxxx <right softkey>
    <read>
    <exec>
    What control/machine do you have? I would love to know how to change the settings so that this is possible. It would save at least 15min per day, probably more. At 15 minutes, that is 62.5hrs per year.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fal Grunt View Post
    ...What control/machine do you have? I would love to know how to change the settings so that this is possible. It would save at least 15min per day, probably more. At 15 minutes, that is 62.5hrs per year.
    Oi-Mate MB, Oi-Mate TB, Oi-MC.

    There's nothing to it- every fanuc post series 6 works the same way AFAIK. Set the input channel to 1 for cable, or 4 for card.

    I don't go back and forth on input channels- 2 machines have RS232 cables, so they stay on channel one. One machine is too far away, I use a card for that one and it stays on channel 4.

    Read and punch use whatever is set as the default channel, no need to specify where the prog is or where it's going.

    Hit the program key twice, brings up the directory (in memory) if you don't know the program number you want. If you want the directory on the card you softkey to the card and there is a directory softkey.


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