Vise jaw milling question

bisctboy · Dec 10, 2020

I have searched the internet for vise jaws that will fit my need and can't seem to find what I'm looking for. I am looking to securely hold a piece of stainless steel round bar so I can mill slots into it on its sides similar to what a cross-hole jig would do. I have attached a picture of what I need on a design that I did on Fusion 360 to better show what I looking for. I am brand new to CNC milling so excuse the green behind my ears...

First, is there anything already out there that is similar to what I have in the picture? I can't use v blocks because they would cover too much of the circumference of the round bar.

Second, is milling the jaws out of aluminum a bad idea since the part I am milling is stainless steel?

Lastly, how would I mill out the round bar profile to match the 1" diameter and does my design look like it would provide enough clamping pressure to securely hold the round bar while milling it? I couldn't find a ball end mill that is 1" diameter.

Thanks,

michiganbuck · Dec 10, 2020

Making the jaws of steel you could dress a wheel to have a radius and then grind the 1" form.

On a mill, and choosing aluminum jaws you might mill V forms to fit the shape.

Aluminum jaws nick up easily so need extra care.

Consider if you mill slots near or past center the held part may contract on the cutter.

*Many guys would just hold the part in common jaws.

QT:[I couldn't find a ball end mill that is 1" diameter.]

Milling Cutters | Convex Cutters | HSS Import Convex Milling Cutter, 1" Circle DIA x 3-1/4" Cutter DIA x 1" Hole | B557934 - GLOBALindustrial.com

https://www.amazon.com/Carbide-Mill...9Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=

https://www.amazon.com/YG-1-Uncoate...+End+Mills&qid=1607639744&s=industrial&sr=1-3

mhajicek · Dec 10, 2020

You could cut the jaws in place with a lollipop or double angle endmill, or hold them rotated 90° and use a ball. What material to use for the jaws will depend on how hard you're cutting and how many parts you're making. If cutting hard and/or making a lot of parts I'd use 4140 prehard.

DavidScott · Dec 10, 2020

How much milling are you doing? I would be hard-pressed not to use standard jaws to hold that to save the fussing around.

I wouldn't use a 1" ball mill if I had it to cut that, I would step it with a 3/4" or so ball mill and relieve the center of the radius so the part does not contact the middle of the radius.

I like aluminum jaws best even for steel parts. Aluminum has a higher coefficient of friction so you get the same grip on your parts with less vise pressure.

bisctboy · Dec 10, 2020

thanks for the links on the cutters!

bisctboy · Dec 10, 2020

@DavidScott - I anticipate 100 pieces to cut initially. I also need to be able to index the round bar in the vice jaws somehow because it needs to be rotated exactly 180 degrees after op1 milling and then milled again on the other side with op2. I forgot to include this detail with me initial post, sorry. See the attached picture.

I'm not sure what you mean by using a 3/4" ball mill and stepping it?

gustafson · Dec 10, 2020

Aluminum will be fine

I think I would make an 'L' with the pin holes on the bottom of the 'L'

Mill the holes in op 1, then use pins to orient the part for the holes 180 out.

Since the part could now rest on the sacrificial bottom there is less reason for the radius

michiganbuck · Dec 10, 2020

QT: [so I can mill slots into it on its sides]

So there are no slots?

You might also add a feature to locate the part endwise.

Hardplates · Dec 10, 2020

bisctboy said:
@
I'm not sure what you mean by using a 3/4" ball mill and stepping it?

View attachment 307199

He means a toolpath like this

kustomizer · Dec 10, 2020

Router bits are a very econimical option when milling aluminum, I like freud with 1/2 shanks

Bobw · Dec 10, 2020

You guys are all going down a rabbit hole.

Its a piece of round stock that gets three shallow holes in it (and then flip).

Op1, Just grab the F'n thing!!!! This isn't rocket science. Hard jaws, parallel
underneath and DONE!!!

Op2, Multiple ways, but nothing as complicated as holding a round bar in round jaws
for absolutely no reason.

That is the most complicated and un-necessary way I've seen to hold a piece of
round stock in a vise.

cosmos_275 · Dec 10, 2020

bisctboy said:
@DavidScott - I anticipate 100 pieces to cut initially. I also need to be able to index the round bar in the vice jaws somehow because it needs to be rotated exactly 180 degrees after op1 milling and then milled again on the other side with op2. I forgot to include this detail with me initial post, sorry. See the attached picture.

I'm not sure what you mean by using a 3/4" ball mill and stepping it?

View attachment 307199

You could make the two concave jaws longer than the part, and bolt them together, and then clamp that assembly in the vise. That way, they stay together during the flip. Make two sets, so you can load one while the other is running.

Per stepping, in F360, you can make that with any size ball end mill <1". You also may not need full radius on radius contact, like a v-block on each side might do it.

jrmach · Dec 10, 2020

Bobw said:
You guys are all going down a rabbit hole.

Its a piece of round stock that gets three shallow holes in it (and then flip).

Op1, Just grab the F'n thing!!!! This isn't rocket science. Hard jaws, parallel
underneath and DONE!!!

Op2, Multiple ways, but nothing as complicated as holding a round bar in round jaws
for absolutely no reason.

That is the most complicated and un-necessary way I've seen to hold a piece of
round stock in a vise.

fuck I am glad someone said it

bisctboy · Dec 10, 2020

Bobw said:
That is the most complicated and un-necessary way I've seen to hold a piece of
round stock in a vise.

Thanks for the feedback!!! Like I alluded to earlier, I am new to this and want to reduce my learning curve as much as possible.

Mike1974 · Dec 11, 2020

Depending on the work, yes regular jaws will probably be just fine for this, but these are available for purchase about anywhere you can buy tools/endmills/etc.

https://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/09240227

michiganbuck · Dec 11, 2020

If you are new, concerned and making 100 parts then..
You might post what the holes are like top side and flip side with tolerances, the angular tolerance for 180* flip, and the distance from the end, or to center however the gauge is given.

One simple concern is the raise a part can have up from the vise floor caused by the moving jaw, that changes much if proper care is not taken.

You might vise three parts and then indicate them to see your holding location and flip method keeps three loadings in needed tolerance.

gustafson · Dec 11, 2020

Bobw said:
You guys are all going down a rabbit hole.

Its a piece of round stock that gets three shallow holes in it (and then flip).

Op1, Just grab the F'n thing!!!! This isn't rocket science. Hard jaws, parallel
underneath and DONE!!!

Op2, Multiple ways, but nothing as complicated as holding a round bar in round jaws
for absolutely no reason.

That is the most complicated and un-necessary way I've seen to hold a piece of
round stock in a vise.

While this is my initial response, my post above indicates why I think a setup is in order. aligning the first and second set of holes is the key.

Having at least your bottom being soft with holes for pins allows for easy and fast realignment for the second set of holes.

Holding round stock in plain vise jaws when you have to drill through frequently allows it to get out of angle alignment

bisctboy · Dec 11, 2020

Mike1974 said:
Depending on the work, yes regular jaws will probably be just fine for this, but these are available for purchase about anywhere you can buy tools/endmills/etc.

https://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/09240227

Thanks for the link!

kustomizer · Dec 11, 2020

Bobw said:
You guys are all going down a rabbit hole.

Its a piece of round stock that gets three shallow holes in it (and then flip).

Op1, Just grab the F'n thing!!!! This isn't rocket science. Hard jaws, parallel
underneath and DONE!!!

Op2, Multiple ways, but nothing as complicated as holding a round bar in round jaws
for absolutely no reason.

That is the most complicated and un-necessary way I've seen to hold a piece of
round stock in a vise.

By the same token, it is OK just to help a guy do the thing he thinks he wants to do, then suggest another way.

kazlx · Dec 11, 2020

I really doubt as a first project the tolerances are anything crazy. I would either make V jaws out of soft jaws real quick (there's literally zero reason to surface a round profile into them) and just orient them with the pins from the first op. The easiest way I could think of (for doing a 100 parts), would be make 4 square "collet blocks" that are a slip fit over the ends of the stock. It looks like your stock fits in the vise. 2" blocks with 1" hole or whatever and a set screw radially in each. Throw it against a stop, mill the first holes, flip 180 and re-run. You can be putting the collars on the next piece while the current one is running.

Vise jaw milling question

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