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Poll: Vise preference

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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by wheelieking71 View Post
    I will 2nd the reverse vises! Why anybody uses a std. vise in a VMC is beyond me!
    ....because I didn't realize they existed before I already had 3 std versions, and my OCD won't let me change 1 without changing them all.



    Sent from my SM-G981V using Tapatalk

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  3. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cole2534 View Post
    .....my OCD won't let me change 1 without changing them all.

    I have CDO, which is worse yet.

    2020-06-19-12_26_58-window.jpg

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  5. #23
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    I'm still in the Kurt boat. Mostly because their design is now an industry standard (that is frequently knocked off unfortunately). We had bought a few knock-offs years ago and were not pleased with the fit, base parallelism, or vise to vise alignment, but the jaws are all interchangeable at least. Since then we've only bought name-brand Kurts, but if Kurt went belly up, some of the "better" imports would still be available (Yuasa, Homge, etc.) until we found a new standard. Most of our jobs are non-exotic single station vises, custom soft jaws or hard jaws, otherwise there's a dedicated fixture on the table.

    I see better vise designs like Orange or Chic, and I worry that they might be there for 10-15 years then become obsolete. We're not high volume and don't wear out vises and typically only buy new when a new machine is coming into the shop every 5-10 years. I like having a little more consistency than the accepted 10 year life span that's so prevalent in industry.

    Now a little off topic dreaming, One of the best "traditional" mill vise designs I've ever used is the long obsolete Saunders Hilo vises that were made in England. Solid center, moving jaw on dovetail, nice cast geometry, and nifty 2 speed screw that doubles down the torq when it meets resistance. I've got 2 at home and love them.... but they're not an option when setting up a new VMC unfortunately....

  6. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChipSplitter View Post
    I'm not really satisfied with the newer Kurts like the DX-6. The chip evacuation sucks and the movable jaw lifts a few thou.

    A lot of the more "modern" alternatives use proprietary/custom jaws AFAIK. Worth it for quick changeover?

    I'm not trying to start a fight with this poll, I just wanted to see what everyone else likes.

    So have your tried adjusting the screw on the moveable yet? this may seem trivial-but is very important. I read further down you were trying to jusify spending $1000 on an orange vice over $500 on a teco? Are you thinking the teco would be leaps and bounds better over a Kurt? Have you ever had a vice that was good at chip evacuation?

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  8. #25
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    I use Chick, but the one I like is alas no longer made. The old M series is my favorite for several reasons. The jaws are super simple to make, just a square pocket and a drilled hole, it has a full bed plate to keep chips out of the body and clamp mechanism, super easy to clean, everything is sealed up tight to keep chips and coolant out. Old used vises are not an option for big shops, but I accumulated a lifetime supply of good ones for about what a pair of Orange vises cost now, before the Orange vises were available. They still turn up on Ebay and elsewhere. Chick still offers most of the parts, but you DON'T want to pay Chick prices if you don't need to.
    I have this one set up semi permanently on my one piece at a time machine as a reverse single station vise, the jaws change in a few seconds with the pull of one pin. It can clamp up to 11" in hard jaws.
    Not sure why Chick has made the changes they have since these, except to make the jaws hard to make in the field and to reduce their parts list.
    Takes about 3 minutes without hurrying to completely field strip one for cleaning. Pop the jaws off lift the bedplate off, unscrew the endplates(if you are using them) and slide the screw assembly out the end of the body. The screw assemblies are well sealed, clean and grease them once every couple of years. Blow it all off, slide it back together.
    111-1200.jpg

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  10. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by allloutmx View Post
    Have you ever had a vice that was good at chip evacuation?
    No. But, I have had vises that were good at chip shrouding. Stopping me from taking a chip shower any time the air gun was pointed at them.
    The Oranges are terrible at this by design. As are most. I just mention Orange because I now have a shop full of them.
    And, when you are running production day-in day-out, it becomes a huge deal.
    Besides being doubles vs. singles, it would be the main difference between what I had, and what I now have.
    And, to be quite honest? Almost enough to make me switch back! I'm getting REAL tired of taking chip showers.

  11. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by wheelieking71 View Post
    No. But, I have had vises that were good at chip shrouding. Stopping me from taking a chip shower any time the air gun was pointed at them.
    The Oranges are terrible at this by design. As are most. I just mention Orange because I now have a shop full of them.
    And, when you are running production day-in day-out, it becomes a huge deal.
    Besides being doubles vs. singles, it would be the main difference between what I had, and what I now have.
    And, to be quite honest? Almost enough to make me switch back! I'm getting REAL tired of taking chip showers.
    Yeah- tearing down my vice in between jobs because i couldnt get the chips out was the worst part for me. Was a beautiful vice. I sold it with my mill. Kept those lousy kurts tho

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  13. #28
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    I have a OML modular vise with pull down jaws and a qiuck change clamping jaw. Very very very happy with it.
    very accurate in use and contruction. on the expensive side for me but worth every euro

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    Quote Originally Posted by wheelieking71 View Post
    You can no longer run std. jaws OR dovetailed jaws on Orange vises without buying a special set of jaw carriers!
    I am also in the process of adopting the dovetail system. I like it. But, after using Monster-Jaws for about 10 years?
    I am here to tell you: it is freaking expensive! NO, I do not think the time saved swapping jaws covers the cost difference. Not even close!
    Special Jaw carriers ? They come with the carriers included: 6" Dual Station Vise - Orange Vise Company LLC

    Buy a dovetail cutter and make them yourself, I make them in 1 op, 4 at a time, could make more jaws than I know what to do with in a few hours.
    The dovetail system pays for itself 10x over when you need to reuse a set of softjaws to run the same job again.

  15. #30
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    Has any of the people that voted Kurt bought a new one in the past few years? A friend got one that had a half thou bow in the hard jaw, another friend got a 5 axis type one that has been nothing but trouble.

    About a year ago I bought a hung lo charlie 6"x9" Kurt knock off for $160 to modify for a specific job. I expected to have to dust all the surfaces in the grinder but to my amazment it was better than 2 tenths over 17". Better than Kurt could do over 6".......

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  17. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hardplates View Post
    Has any of the people that voted Kurt bought a new one in the past few years? A friend got one that had a half thou bow in the hard jaw, another friend got a 5 axis type one that has been nothing but trouble.

    About a year ago I bought a hung lo charlie 6"x9" Kurt knock off for $160 to modify for a specific job. I expected to have to dust all the surfaces in the grinder but to my amazment it was better than 2 tenths over 17". Better than Kurt could do over 6".......
    My GMT Kurt 3610V knock-offs are quite good. Short of some core-shift forcing some work to the center bed-holes if you want to use them for bolting down?
    They are excellent. Bed heights between 11 or so vises (I lost count, then sold a few) are within tenths from vise to vise. But, it has been at least 5 years since I bought one. No regrets whatsoever though. Those china-crap vises made a lot of great parts, and money! Now I have one bolted on top of my tool box, LOL!

  18. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Insert View Post
    Special Jaw carriers ? They come with the carriers included: 6" Dual Station Vise - Orange Vise Company LLC

    Buy a dovetail cutter and make them yourself, I make them in 1 op, 4 at a time, could make more jaws than I know what to do with in a few hours.
    The dovetail system pays for itself 10x over when you need to reuse a set of softjaws to run the same job again.
    You misunderstood. You can not bolt a std. kurt-style jaw in a newer Orange vise without purchasing the special carrier jaws.

    THESE: Cast Iron Center Jaw for BOLT-ON Jawplates - Orange Vise Company LLC

    And, everybody has their opinion. I disagree with you on the dovetail system paying for itself 10x over. (strongly disagree)
    99% of my work happens in soft jaws. I know all about this game! My stance hasn't changed now that I am using dovetailed jaws.

    I suppose you are utilizing the locating pin with your home rolled jaws too, huh? (what I feel is the biggest benefit of the dovetailed jaws)
    Second biggest benefit of dovetailed jaws is no 1/2-13 cap-screws in the way when cutting jaw pockets.
    Last benefit is the actual jaw retention system. It is NOT! that much faster. If you find it is? You suck at using tools.

    And, if you have time to roll your own jaws? You should probably go find some paying work. But hey, that is just my opinion.

  19. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by allloutmx View Post
    Yeah- tearing down my vice in between jobs because i couldnt get the chips out was the worst part for me. Was a beautiful vice. I sold it with my mill. Kept those lousy kurts tho
    Try doing ten of them all in the same day after two weeks of 10hr days worth of production milling! It is a shit show of epic proportions!

  20. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by wheelieking71 View Post
    You misunderstood. You can not bolt a std. kurt-style jaw in a newer Orange vise without purchasing the special carrier jaws.

    THESE: Cast Iron Center Jaw for BOLT-ON Jawplates - Orange Vise Company LLC

    And, everybody has their opinion. I disagree with you on the dovetail system paying for itself 10x over. (strongly disagree)
    99% of my work happens in soft jaws. I know all about this game! My stance hasn't changed now that I am using dovetailed jaws.

    I suppose you are utilizing the locating pin with your home rolled jaws too, huh? (what I feel is the biggest benefit of the dovetailed jaws)
    Second biggest benefit of dovetailed jaws is no 1/2-13 cap-screws in the way when cutting jaw pockets.
    Last benefit is the actual jaw retention system. It is NOT! that much faster. If you find it is? You suck at using tools.

    And, if you have time to roll your own jaws? You should probably go find some paying work. But hey, that is just my opinion.
    Pays for itself 10x when reusing soft jaws. They locate back into the same spot, don't need to re-cut them or line them up.
    Exactly, I add a hole and ream it, everything in 1 op then throw a dowel in it.

    Go find paying work ? You have spent more time posting on this thread than it would take to convert a 12' stick into jaws. The cycle time per jaw is less than 2 min, you only need to machine one side, they are easier to make than regular jaws.

  21. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Insert View Post
    You have spent more time posting on this thread than it would take to convert a 12' stick into jaws.
    Yep, all while I have 5 machines with months long back-logs, running paying work, with customers breathing down my neck waiting on their parts.
    I'm glad you have free and open spindles available. I do not (nor do I want them!)
    It would cost me FAR more money to buy material, and machine jaws. Than it would to just buy jaws.
    When the earnings from running paying parts in whatever machine I would make jaws in are factored in to the equation.

    That is what nobody ever factors in when these buy vs. make jaw subjects come up.
    Why make your own jaws to save $500? When you could buy them for $1000.
    Then run paying parts where you would have made jaws, that pay $5,000. This puts you $4,500 minimum ahead of the game.
    It makes zero sense to make jaws if you have the backlog to keep all your spindles turning.
    If it does make sense? Your not charging enough for your work. My margins are super low. And, it still makes no sense to make jaws.
    Last year when I was super slow, and actually trying to come up with stuff to keep my guy busy, I considered it. But, still was always able to find a better option.

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  23. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by wheelieking71 View Post
    Yep, all while I have 5 machines with months long back-logs, running paying work, with customers breathing down my neck waiting on their parts.
    I'm glad you have free and open spindles available. I do not (nor do I want them!)
    It would cost me FAR more money to buy material, and machine jaws. Than it would to just buy jaws.
    When the earnings from running paying parts in whatever machine I would make jaws in are factored in to the equation.

    That is what nobody ever factors in when these buy vs. make jaw subjects come up.
    Why make your own jaws to save $500? When you could buy them for $1000.
    Then run paying parts where you would have made jaws, that pay $5,000. This puts you $4,500 minimum ahead of the game.
    It makes zero sense to make jaws if you have the backlog to keep all your spindles turning.
    If it does make sense? Your not charging enough for your work. My margins are super low. And, it still makes no sense to make jaws.
    Last year when I was super slow, and actually trying to come up with stuff to keep my guy busy, I considered it. But, still was always able to find a better option.
    This logic applies to pretty much everything in a machine shop. It took me a long time to realise it too.

    Time is the most valuable commodity, and the single greatest expense. Buying cheap tools that cost time is a fools errand, and rolling your own when you can just buy it is the same damn thing.

    You need to be using a lot of soft jaws before the cost swings in favour of making them instead of buying them.

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