VMC Decision: Old Okuma vs Old Fadal

Business partner and I looking at older VMC's for a side gig. Not heavy production. Viewed a super clean 1995 Okuma MC40 VA(?) today along with 1997-2001 Fadal VM15, 3016 and 4020 machines. All CAT40.

None were under power. Do the Fadal VM15 and 3016 have pneumatic draw bars? I know the 4020's are hyd (should be...). The Okuma is hydraulic. I already know which is the best machine out of the choices.

Opinions bring forth abundantly in the earth.

The fadals are air push to release spring to hold tool in spindle. The fadals are cheap and easy to maintain I like the 40x20 A Machine’s they are linear way and when they get older like all fadals are they give less troubles. That’s my opinion
Don


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I don't know jack about Fadals but I do have some experience with old Okumas. I had a pair of Cadet 4020s, one a 94 model and the other a 95, both with the 5020 control. Both machines were pretty solid up until about 3 years ago and then started having control issues (mostly amps). About $1500 to $3000 and a couple of weeks to get them rebuilt but there are 4 of them per machine and you can't really fix them until they break. The service guys said that they are pretty complicated and it is usually some big capacitor that is hard to get that craps out. From my experience, 25 years old is getting pretty risky at least for the 5020 control. Can you spring for anything newer?

RC Mech said:

Business partner and I looking at older VMC's for a side gig. Not heavy production. Viewed a super clean 1995 Okuma MC40 VA(?) today along with 1997-2001 Fadal VM15, 3016 and 4020 machines. All CAT40.

None were under power. Do the Fadal VM15 and 3016 have pneumatic draw bars? I know the 4020's are hyd (should be...). The Okuma is hydraulic. I already know which is the best machine out of the choices.

Opinions bring forth abundantly in the earth.

Click to expand...

Too fucking old. Ich. Or either choice. Iron is Iron, but it's all about the electron-pushing. You only know which HAD BEEN "the best machine".

Newer is always cheaper. Older is always more expensive. Technology didn't stand-still. Eventually ALL components go orphaned.

Where does that put you one, two, or five years out, even if next week is a go, and why WOULD it have to be if nothing can even be checked under power THIS week?

Get to where you CAN test under power, or go find something else. Or an HONEST casino that doesn't pretend it's a machinery dealership.

If they are both not under power, one positive for the fadal may be that the parameters on the fadal control are extremely easy and almost inuitive to re-enter. Look up a fadal manual online to see what I mean.

Also in case of control issues, Fadal control boards are very easy to swap, fairly cheap, available from a couple different suppliers and have substantial cross-compatibility across years.

I don't own Fadals because they are the latest greatest bestest and fastest..

I own them because they are cheap, and I can get parts and support from quite
the number of different sources..

To me, the greatest concern with older machines is PARTS!!! and SUPPORT!!!!

I don't know what to tell you on the Okuma.

Fadal.. They made a TON of them, and they were basically the same machine from the
late 80's up into the mid 2000's. There are 4 or 5 companies that support them and
sell parts and offer FREE!!! tech support... I doubt there is a single part or electrical
component or board that I can't have in my hands by tomorrow morning... And the price is
going to be almost free compared to almost any other machine tool out there...

If I break down at 2am on a Sunday, I can come here, get some advise and be up and running
by 3am.. If I need parts, I can order them Monday morning, and have them Tuesday morning..

I don't need to search the globe for the one guy that isn't dead yet that knows something
about the machine...

And you can upgrade them, there are I believe 3 different companies that are making completely
compatible plug and play upgraded faster controls.. You can still send your Fadal out and have
it rebuilt.....

Parts and Support is the main reason I would go for the Fadal...

And the control.. Its AWESOME.. SOOOO simple... Menu driven, you tell it what you want to
do and it literally baby steps you through it.. Parameters are 3 short pages WRITTEN IN ENGLISH!!!!
"Rigid Tapping 1)yes 2)no" <---- its really that simple... No binary or hexidecimals, just plain
old english... No software options, its all there.. Macros, ton of offsets, some fantastic utilites..

You want to add a 4th axis. Buy the HARDWARE, install it and then go into the parameters and simply turn
it on... "Axis 1)X,Y,Z 2)X,Y,Z,A 3)X,Y,Z,A,B"

I also like that M7 and M8 are literally standard 120 volt plugs on the back of the machine. $30 and
you have yourself an air blast.. Hook a light or a rock tumbler up to it if you want.

Just my 2 cents.

you can afford to repair a fadal

Yeah we're not too keen on purchasing a machine without seeing it powered up. That would be a stipulation of sale, if we entertain this dealer any further.

Bob, you've successfully convinced me.

You want to add a 4th axis. Buy the HARDWARE, install it and then go into the parameters and simply turn
it on... "Axis 1)X,Y,Z 2)X,Y,Z,A 3)X,Y,Z,A,B

Click to expand...

I was leaning toward the better Fe, but the above in addition to the support wins on this one. We should endeavour to make life easier on ourselves as we get older eh? There are a few Fadal's local, currently making parts, for sale.

Fadal maintenance should be WAAAY less challenging. Calmotion has some great looking retrofits for controls that considerably extend the life expectancy of an old Fadal.

If you are so inclined, you can replace the linear ways, ball screws, etc yourself. Most, if not all Okumas are box way machines. If they are damaged, it is a special and expensive skill to repair.

Personally, I would prioritize maintainability over other points when considering an old machine.

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RC Mech said:

Yeah we're not too keen on purchasing a machine without seeing it powered up. That would be a stipulation of sale, if we entertain this dealer any further.

Bob, you've successfully convinced me.

I was leaning toward the better Fe, but the above in addition to the support wins on this one. We should endeavour to make life easier on ourselves as we get older eh? There are a few Fadal's local, currently making parts, for sale.

Click to expand...

Ryan, be careful with those fadals locally. Ive been doing some inspections on them.... pm or email me if you want the inside scoop