VMC ... tool will not release from spindle bore
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    Default VMC ... tool will not release from spindle bore

    2011 year Litz Hitech CV-1000 . Pneumatic style release... I can hear/feel the pneumatic cylinder moving when I hit manual release button,,, but (CAT 40) tool remains in place .., help with a small pry bar does nothing. What are the chances the tool is seized in the spindle versus the pull stud gripper position needs adjustment ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Milacron View Post
    2011 year Litz Hitech CV-1000 . Pneumatic style release... I can hear/feel the pneumatic cylinder moving when I hit manual release button,,, but (CAT 40) tool remains in place .., help with a small pry bar does nothing. What are the chances the tool is seized in the spindle versus the pull stud gripper position needs adjustment ?
    Depending on many factors, especially if the taper is slightly worn, I’ve had tool holders stick in the taper after we mulled hard or they sat for a while. Try a dead blow hammer to the side of the holder. Usually takes two people. One to hold the button and one to catch the tool and swing the hammer.

    Our fryer mills do it every time we mill hard.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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    Was the tool in the spindle when you received the machine?

    If yes, did they rig the machine using the tool set down on the table?
    That could really seat a tool during transport

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    Quote Originally Posted by Milacron View Post
    2011 year Litz Hitech CV-1000 . Pneumatic style release... I can hear/feel the pneumatic cylinder moving when I hit manual release button,,, but (CAT 40) tool remains in place .., help with a small pry bar does nothing. What are the chances the tool is seized in the spindle versus the pull stud gripper position needs adjustment ?
    .
    usually its maintenance issue like springs need replacing or a shim adjust. be aware having it release too easy is not good. if draw bar force not high enough the tool might not stay in under heavy cutting. that aint good from my experience.
    .
    odd clicking noise of drive keys cause tool pulled out enough usually severely damages a spindle taper literally in less than 10 seconds

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    Fair size piece of brass....a few MODERATE percussion adjustments to the side of the holder. In my experience this works with less force needed than a dead blow hammer. The vibrations seem to help it release easier.
    Not sure how much force it would take to pry a tool out that is locked on the taper using a die bar....but i am thinking ALOT might be an understatement

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    Make sure that there is enough air pressure too. Also check that there is no regulator at the machine that is set wrong. Also if there is excessive leakage in hoses or cylinder it will limit the unclamp force.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Milacron View Post
    What are the chances the tool is seized in the spindle versus the pull stud gripper position needs adjustment ?
    It depends, like others mentioned, were you milling hard for a long period of time without a tool change? I've had them stick before from this.

    Or it could be the knob gripper fingers aren't actuating and/or they are broken.
    Is there some way to access it from the top of the spindle?

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    Quote Originally Posted by mjk View Post
    Was the tool in the spindle when you received the machine?

    If yes, did they rig the machine using the tool set down on the table?
    yes.no....some evidence previous owner was working on the issue before I bought it. Took head cover off and see the pull stud assembly is traveling about 3/8” before it bottoms out. Hard to tell if the limited travel is why the tool is stuck or if the limited travel is because the tool is stuck ...

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    I was honestly surprised this wasn't a Haas. I've had that issue a number of times, judicious application of a very large brass persuader in a downward direction always solved the issue. I was looking for a big enough chunk of becu to make a wedge collar to drive in, but I never got that far. Not entirely sure it would have been a good idea to twist the tool in the spindle that way, but I was more than fed up with that machine.

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    Did the machine come with other holders that you could look at the tapers and see whether they are, for example, fretted, which might in turn indicate the spindle taper is worn?

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    40 taper draw bar is only around the ton mark, hence try a bigger crow bar and you should at least get some movment and if it snapping back if its not stuck, if it is stuck and your not in love with the tool holder i too second the hit it side ways with a lump of metal, not a soft face hammer of any description, but something hard, the shock does wonders. Work up, save swinging the 1' dia 8' long round from the crane as a last resort!

    If it moves with the crow bar and snaps back it could well just be a oil or pressure issue. If air over hydraulics its not unheard of for them to gradually lose oil over time and eventually run out of travel or get a air bubble and make nothing like the power they should!

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    Had one get stuck in one of the old Okuma Cadets - bearings were starting to run hot and left a tool in the spindle at the end of a long day. Next day it would not kick the tool out. Ended up using a 4 foot gorilla bar and a wooden block and it came out in about 10 seconds. Put a catch bucket under the tool in case it pops out so you don't break anything or divot the table. Replaced the spindle cartridge soon after that.

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    It's also possible the toolholder is in the wrong orientation.

    Some vmcs must have a Cat40 holder one way, otherwise it can stick. Usually a manual hold on the release button and a decent tap with a dead blow would convince the toolholder to exit the spindle taper in that case.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alloy Mcgraw View Post
    It's also possible the toolholder is in the wrong orientation.

    Some vmcs must have a Cat40 holder one way, otherwise it can stick.
    Not the case here. Two foot bar not working, moderate hammer blows not working.... before I get Medieval on this thing can anyone here say they have had, or have heard of someone else having, this problem being something other than the tool being stuck in the taper ?

    I mean, it sounds logical that of course it could be due to broken grippers or stripped drawbar but has anyone here ever actually had that problem ? I had broken grippers in an NC Deckel once but that didn't prevent the tool from being extracted from the spindle.

    If stuck, would a bearing separator likely work ? https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/OTC4518

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    Quote Originally Posted by Milacron View Post

    If stuck, would a bearing separator likely work ? https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/OTC4518
    It could, it's easier if the dogs are removable. But if there's actual damage to the retention mechanism it could still bind to the point of having to snap something (worst case).

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    I worked on a used machine that had a tool stuck in the spindle because of a rusty drawbar. Part of the body of the tool gripper had rusted to the inside of the spindle while in storage. It took about a 6' bar, a chain, and pretty much all my weight on the bar in addition to actuating the tool unclamp cylinder to get the tool out. Then I had to make a puller to extract the drawbar out the top of the spindle. I think the user did not have dry air and the air blow for taper cleaning was getting water in the drawbar area.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Milacron View Post
    yes.no....some evidence previous owner was working on the issue before I bought it. Took head cover off and see the pull stud assembly is traveling about 3/8” before it bottoms out. Hard to tell if the limited travel is why the tool is stuck or if the limited travel is because the tool is stuck ...
    Can you pour some penetrant like Kroil down the top and let it soak?

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    If a rusty drawbar is the culprit, could a shot of Kroil in the feed line to the blow down help?


    Ok
    I was typing when the above post was entered
    Great minds

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    I've also had best success with the brass hammer to the side of the flange, but I've never dealt with one that was stuck this bad.

    Might try running the spindle warm-up program, or just let it go wide open for a while- heating up the spindle may help.

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    Sounds like your drawbar isnt pushing down enough 3/8 wont cut it. I believe most are around 3/4 to an inch of travel.
    theres a few types of drawbar pushers. if you have the type with the air exhaust on a the solenoid valve that push's the plunger, disconnect the exhaust port they get clogged up sometimes. it was a pain to figure out one of our machines issues and I narrowed it down to the exhaust filter/stone was clogged, took them off and it worked fine. what was happening was the exhaust wasn't leaking out and causing the plunger to fight against it.

    if you have an air gap between the plunger and drawbar stick a chunk of metal in there to take up the space which will give it more travel. which in turn will get your tool out.

    can you post a picture of the type of plunger you have?

    dont pry that tool out until you have no more options because it might be something as simple as exhaust stone, or o rings in the plunger system
    one other thing is to run direct air to the plunger to see if that helps, bypass everything.

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