Way covers turning black, only cutting 6061
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  1. #1
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    Default Way covers turning black, only cutting 6061

    Hey everyone, figure I would get some more traction if posted in the cnc machining area vs Haas. The z Axis looks brand new, it's only the Y and X. Machine is a 2020 Haas VF2SSYT

    Has anyone every experience this? If so, did you ever figure out the problem?


    • Running Qualichem 251c, sent samples of tank coolant and tap water to them. Everything is ok. Concentration stays at 9-10%, used distilled for topping off mixed with 1 oz of coolant (qualichem told me to do so). Qualichem sent a additive to try called “alum anti-stain” in case it is the coolant. Still to be determine.
    • Only ever machined alum 6061
    • Black stain/residue will come off with scrotchbrite and little wd40
    • The little seals on the way covers come off. These seal up the matting surface of the way cover and the tab that the bolts go through to secure the cover to the table. They come off very easy, which makes me think the sealant was not sticking well to the way covers. This would suggest a oil or something on the metal
    • Use permatex RTV to apply seals to both x axis and the rear Y axis. I cleaned most of it up but HFO wants to check it out.
    • When I talked to the factory they mention the way covers have a zing coating. The Z axis way covers are not effect and look new.


    90951553_10217692954900971_1302702811108081664_o.jpgimg_0001.jpgimg_0002.jpgimg_0003.jpgimg_0004.jpg

    The 3rd picture is more worst than it looks.

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    Are the wipers breaking down?

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    Could you possibly have some stray electric currents going through the machine, and causing a galvanic corrosion between the steel and iron and the aluminum swarf?

    Not sure of the best way to check this, perhaps a good DVM set to millivolts and check between a proper ground and the machine elements? Our more knowledgeable EE types may have better ideas.

  4. Likes Djstorm100 liked this post
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    It's the coolant


    Machine isn't going to look new forever.

    Stop me if I've told this story before:

    Worked at a little lab with a machinist who was, err, interesting. We bought a brand new Colchester, supposed to be for shop use, but it was instantly 'his'

    needed to use it for something, it must have been fro stainless, as I think I used Anchor Lube. Didnt clean it all up afterwards, cause I'm like that

    I can still picture him bent over scrubbing the cross slide

    Stained it black by the way

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    If you think its the coolant then change brands,, if you think its the water then buy water from the store!!! Coolant is not a one brand or one type fits all people or applications ,,,, vf2 is only a 50 gallon system so you only need one bucket of coolant to mix a tank and have enough left over to try it for a month ,,,

    one thing I would ask is if your mixing it with "COLD" water and using a mixer,,, a lot of guys use a bucket and stick and I have found it does not do a good job ,,, I used the bucket and stick years ago on some E-206 and in under a week it separated and I never could get it to mix up ,, had to dump the whole tank and start over with a mixer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bryan_machine View Post
    Are the wipers breaking down?
    Possibility but not sure how the residue would get to the top of the covers with flood coolant flowing the opposite direction.

    Quote Originally Posted by Milland View Post
    Could you possibly have some stray electric currents going through the machine, and causing a galvanic corrosion between the steel and iron and the aluminum swarf?

    Not sure of the best way to check this, perhaps a good DVM set to millivolts and check between a proper ground and the machine elements? Our more knowledgeable EE types may have better ideas.
    I've though about this. The run from the breaker to my machine is 200-225. We had our electrician who wired our building do wire up the new shop. We ran 2awg wire. Haas states on their install literature to run the same size ground as the power. This was over look. I'll call our electrician on Monday.

    Quote Originally Posted by D.D.Machine View Post
    If you think its the coolant then change brands,, if you think its the water then buy water from the store!!! Coolant is not a one brand or one type fits all people or applications ,,,, vf2 is only a 50 gallon system so you only need one bucket of coolant to mix a tank and have enough left over to try it for a month ,,,

    one thing I would ask is if your mixing it with "COLD" water and using a mixer,,, a lot of guys use a bucket and stick and I have found it does not do a good job ,,, I used the bucket and stick years ago on some E-206 and in under a week it separated and I never could get it to mix up ,, had to dump the whole tank and start over with a mixer.
    I'm not 100% sold on that it's the coolant just yet. I have the right side of way cover cover in coolant, the left side is dry. I don't know how to think about the sealant coming off. In the sense of something is wrong with them. Could just be they were not cleaned very well. idk

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    Quote Originally Posted by Djstorm100 View Post
    I've though about this. The run from the breaker to my machine is 200-225. We had our electrician who wired our building do wire up the new shop. We ran 2awg wire. Haas states on their install literature to run the same size ground as the power. This was over look. I'll call our electrician on Monday.
    I am sure you/he didnt run 2awg wire to the machine, just the building.

    a grounding rod added to each machine works great if you have what milland said. use to run them on all machines back in the day and never had galvanic corrosion.
    Take a Hammer drill drill a hole in the concrete, hammer down a 4'-6' copper grounding rod. run a wire 8-10 gage from rod to metal on frame if you can and your good to go. it must make good metal contact.
    dont just drill a hole in a painted cabinet and put a lug in there with a bolt. Bolt it to the frame of the machine if you can as cabinets have alot of paint on them when there assembled. and sometimes rubber busing to stop vibration.

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    Cabinet shot. I was just following the manual and said not to use a ground rod.

    Saying drill and tap a hole to the iron frame?


    2awg to the disconnect and then to the machine


    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails c7fff10a-8f4b-4f18-b19f-463afd528b0a.jpg   14510c45-b2ab-45ac-b07f-b76411a96dcd.jpg   44c7bed6-488f-4226-a7cc-665ba53d433b.jpg   ea479839-a3b5-44cf-8285-2009e9ab2a89.jpg  
    Last edited by Djstorm100; 03-29-2020 at 09:33 AM.

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    If the manufacturer says don't use a ground rod at the machine then don't use a ground rod at the machine! They have a reason for stating that, usually the reason is to protect their electronics from a ground loops. When they state that the Ground wire should be the same size as the power feed wire, it's not because they supply the jar of Vaseline when pricing the machine and now want to put a little sand into the mix when it comes to installing it, they really have a reason for that recommendation.

    From the pictures, I don't think it is galvanic corrosion. Galvanic corrosion will have pits in it as the metal is eroded away and your discoloration appears to be smooth. It you find that it is galvanic corrosion, then contact the Manufacturer for recommendations on stopping it! Sacrificial anodes is one method (usually bags or rods) made from Zinc attached to the machine. There are people who specialize in sacrificial anodes, Zinc is cheap but they aren't.

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    So melodramatic. The title implies something interesting. The pictures look like VERY regular deterioration of brand spanking new.

    R

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    Quote Originally Posted by litlerob1 View Post
    So melodramatic. The title implies something interesting. The pictures look like VERY regular deterioration of brand spanking new.

    R
    Negative R. 22hours of cut time.. Considering the 8 or so friends with various age range machines (oldest being 3 years old) none show this sign. Of those many are using the same coolant. The only real change is zinc cover covers, confirm by Haas Factory. My Z axis, is SS and no signs

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    id be more worried about your sparkys standard of work than discoloration of some galvanized covers!

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    Quote Originally Posted by lumley32 View Post
    id be more worried about your sparkys standard of work than discoloration of some galvanized covers!
    That's a wee bit of overkill on the wiring. Maybe he had some spools left over from other jobs and wanted to use them up?

    I used 6 AWG for my machines, for around a hundred foot run to the machines from the panel.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Milland View Post
    That's a wee bit of overkill on the wiring. Maybe he had some spools left over from other jobs and wanted to use them up?

    I used 6 AWG for my machines, for around a hundred foot run to the machines from the panel.
    Quote Originally Posted by lumley32 View Post
    id be more worried about your sparkys standard of work than discoloration of some galvanized covers!
    It has to do with the run of wire from the main panel. 4awg would work but stepped it up for insurance and we had some left over for when the building was built.

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    I was talking about all the exposed conductor and it looks like the disconnect is connected backward, I know it's all inside a box but that wouldn't fly in the UK!

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    Quote Originally Posted by lumley32 View Post
    I was talking about all the exposed conductor and it looks like the disconnect is connected backward, I know it's all inside a box but that wouldn't fly in the UK!
    Arm in the down position is off and pulls the conductor away. Power comes in from the top of the box.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Djstorm100 View Post
    Arm in the down position is off and pulls the conductor away. Power comes in from the top of the box.
    ok, stand corrected, looking at it I thought the top wires were going to the machine.

    dose this look like the problem with your covers?

    Brown Staining on Galvanized… | American Galvanizers Association

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    Quote Originally Posted by lumley32 View Post
    I was talking about all the exposed conductor and it looks like the disconnect is connected backward, I know it's all inside a box but that wouldn't fly in the UK!
    are you talking about all of the 1 or 2mm of exposed copper right below the bare connector?

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    Quote Originally Posted by lumley32 View Post
    ok, stand corrected, looking at it I thought the top wires were going to the machine.

    dose this look like the problem with your covers?

    Brown Staining on Galvanized… | American Galvanizers Association
    No, it's just black. I noticed it when after about a month. One of the big coolant manufactures, I reach out to (I don't use them but may switch after this), He told me it's a known issues with zinc cover ways. I got off the phone with Haas and they are in fact Galvannealed. Z axis is stainless and doesn't turn. I know alum as a tendency to turn things black. This doesn't come off with a rag and solvent. Only way to move it is by a abrasive pad. Am I wrong in thinking this reaction is happening under top surface since, have to use abrasive pad to remove it?

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    Fwiw..

    I know it is against general electrical code (industrial machines have exceptions), but local by-the-machine ground rods are a well-known usually effective way to kill electrical gremlins.

    Based on experience with more than 20.000 installed machines, over 25 years, by the biggest industrial MT retailer in the world, where I was an executive.

    And extensive experience with industrial video outfits (think industrial light & magic).
    Ground is not ground and ground potential can vary 140 V between plugs.

    A copper ground rod is often a good solution, if one can be installed.
    It maybe won´t find or fix the underlying problem, but can often make it go away.

    And even where one "cannot" install a ground rod, usually one can.
    Like in a 4th floor co-op rented industrial space.
    200$, pizza, and a case of beer, and the next day the ground rod is installed and the new ground wire is in place.

    Ground wires are not illegal and not stealing electricity and not damaging the building.
    Owners rules and caretakers rules can often be "adjusted".


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