What's new
What's new
By:
Advanced search…

We've all been seeing ads for Tormach Machines, here in PM.

Metalcutter

Metalcutter

Titanium
Joined
Sep 14, 2005
Location
San Diego
Well I do miniature parts, and a couple of products, in this line of small pieces. So I thought maybe this machine might be worth looking at. The specifications they show you all look pretty good to me. I did though have some questions. Rapid traverse, wasn't listed, and on my wish list was Drip Feed. So I asked about them and here was their reply.

******
Stanley,

No you cannot drip feed G-code into our machines I have included a link to our website and our white paper on our controller. Engineering Documents - Tormach Machine Controller | Tormach LLC | We provide personal small CNC machines, CNC tooling, and many more CNC items We offer two different machines with the PCNC 1100 you have rapids of 110 IPM and 130 IPM on the PCNC770. I hope this info has been helpful feel free to contact me if you have any further questions.


Sincerely
Jeffery Hamre
******

I also wanted to know what class spindle bearings they use. After all, they have a Bridgeport size quill, 3.375 diameter. They haven't had time to reply yet. I mean I just asked the question today.

I realize this is an economical machine. So maybe it's not what I want. Anyone know of a cnc mill of about this size that is more of an industrial machine?

Regards,

Stan-
 
It uses Mach as the control software so you don't have to drip feed. Your only limit is how large of a file Windows will handle without choking. Anything under 2GB should be fine.
 
Economical??

For what you get, (and I think I'm fairly sure what you get) I think
the prices are crazy.
I ran onto a post someplace recently where a guy had all sorts of trouble
with his Y axis going nuts on his brand new machine, and he was feeling no
love for those folks at tormach.....

110 IPM RAPIDS......what a JOKE
 
haas mini mill is my (tiny) dream machine. tool changer a must. ive seen nice machines go for 18k on ebay. fits in a elevator too. I have a acu-rite cnc 2 axis b-port now with 100ipm rapid and not having a tool changer is a bitch .
 
dkmc said:
I ran onto a post someplace recently where a guy had all sorts of trouble
with his Y axis going nuts on his brand new machine...
Click to expand...


I'm skeptical about any machine that uses stepper motors. IMO, there's a good reason REAL machine tools use servo loops. Then again, plenty of people have done quite well with Tormach equipment. If making chips were only going to be an occasional (expensive) hobby, a Tormach machine might be a good candidate. I've also seen some start-up businesses that got off the ground using a Tormach. It got the job done, and they didn't have to mess around with trying to chase bugs out of a used machine. So, if you want something lightweight and to hit the ground running, it might be an option. Just don't expect much for MRR. Also, as noted, 110 IPM shouldn't even be considered a rapid. It's more of a feed rate.

I seem to remember reading a thread by someone that was considering Tormach, but they ended up going with a CNC bed mill. It was much heavier/stronger than the Tormach, but the final cost was about the same (I believe he bought a slightly used machine.) I've seen lightly used Hass TMs for not much more than what a Tormach costs. There are lots of options out there that would be much better than a Tormach, but virtually all of them will be used and bigger/heavier (definitely not a bad thing even when making small parts.)
 
Gee guys. But 110ipm might actually look fast on that small of a table. The big negative in my opinion is the steppers. You gotta have a closed loop servo if you want something dependable, particularly when doing heavier cutting. But tormach has a heck of a following if you check another particular forum.

But the next step up is a retrofit knee mill or up to a smaller open bedmill such would be like the prototrack mills. Really, if a guy had space or weight handling limitations, I would expect a tormach wouldn't be so bad. But if they would start using servos, it might actually be tits for big hobby or small start up.
 
HAAS Super mini for the rpm or a Hurco VM10 are 2 awsome small cnc mills with the footprint of a knee mill.
 
ions82 said:
I'm skeptical about any machine that uses stepper motors. IMO, there's a good reason REAL machine tools use servo loops . . .
Click to expand...

Steppers are pretty old fashioned to be putting on a machine tool. But on small machines with limited HP and rigidity, like the Tormach, it turns out that there is not much advantage in using servos, you can't really cut faster than 60 ipm or so on those machines anyway, so servo's wouldn't really buy you much.

The vast majority of Tormach user's are pretty happy with their machines but keep in mind they are primarily doing home shop work or prototyping work. The few unhappy Tormach users I've seen were expecting to be able to do something closer to job shop work and that's definitely not a good match for the machine. But I don't know why they were expecting that kind of performance anyway, any machine with an R8 spindle and 1.5HP is not going to compete on MRR with even the smallest VMC.

A big plus factor with Tormach is the good support and wide range of accessories the company has introduced, including a pretty affordable 4th axis, an ATC plus some other nice accessories. Its a nice machine for prototyping or small runs if you are not in a hurry and can live with the small work envelope.
 
Hey, at least my "baby doll" knows better at 17 months old. She walked through earlier, went past some clutter and other toys, looked up at the old Okuma and points at it and says,"sheen". She knows

I bought my first toy, old prototrak, 7 years ago about now. I wanted one of them because it is what I had used at the current job at that time and could get started straight away. I remember when I was trying to find one for a fair price, I had seen some benchtop machines and then, only thing I could think is, what the f%^& is that. I mean no offense to those who have or plan to get a benchtop, but even then, while my first thing was delrin parts, I could not imagine trying to do them in the benchtop I saw. Which was much smaller than the tormach, though
 
bucktruck said:
That was painfully slow to watch.
Click to expand...
Bit disrespectful, could YOU build one yourself? you must be a young person, because when I started cnc programing e.t.c. back in 1980 "professional" machine tools were as slow if not slower on tool changing. the obsession with "chip to chip" toolchanging times has only been around for the last 20 odd years, before that it was positional accuracy/repeatability, next will be to get rid of dumbo button pushers! lol
 
Metalcutter said:
Well I do miniature parts, and a couple of products, in this line of small pieces. So I thought maybe this machine might be worth looking at. The specifications they show you all look pretty good to me. I did though have some questions. Rapid traverse, wasn't listed, and on my wish list was Drip Feed. So I asked about them and here was their reply.
Click to expand...

If your parts are small, you might want to look at the Tormach PCNC 770, which has a faster spindle speed than the 1100. The specs are here:

PCNC 770 Personal CNC Mill Specifications | Tormach LLC | We provide personal small CNC machines, CNC tooling, and many more CNC items

and it has a 10k spindle and 135 ipm rapids in X/Y and 110 ipm in Z. The 1100 has a 5100 rpm spindle and rapids of 110 ipm X/Y and 90 ipm Z.

Your satisfaction with either mill will depend more on how realistic your expectations are than anything else (IMHO). Their tech support has been excellent in the 5 years I've owned an 1100 and I've used it to resolve issues a couple of times, most recently this past week, and always satisfactorily.

If the unhappy owner mentioned elsewhere in the thread is the one I'm thinking of, he seemed to think that Tormach should fly someone out to his location to resolve his problems. That's not going to happen with a mill as inexpensive as the Tormach and they are pretty clear about that up front. They eventually refunded his money and sent someone out to pick up the mill. Last I saw he was looking at Syil mills - if he goes that route he may be very surprised at the sort of support he gets from them.

That UMC-10 mill by the Fadal guy (Dave Caussin?) sure looked intriguing, but it sounds like he only builds them once in a while. I doubt that you'd get on-site support from hime either and if that is important to you, seems like it would be smart to buy from a major player or at least a mill for which on-site maintenance can be procured.
 
"Adaptable Spindle– a responsive 1.0HP, 10000 RPM R8 spindle offers the speed needed for small endmill finishing while still provides enough torque to cut the materials you use the most: aluminum, plastic, steel, titanium, and even stainless – all without restricting tooling choices to what fits in small diameter collets typical of other benchtop CNC milling systems."

R8? seriously?

Tormach = Garbage
 
LOL........
But what's your real opinion John?? ;)

Not sure if I'd go so far as to shout 'garbage' but it's really over played (and oversold) to a possibly somewhat gullible audience. In comparison to 'real' machine tools, I think the price is an extremely poor value for what you get. Kinda like Sears oversells the Craftsman name, or used to.


That UMC-10 mill by the Fadal guy (Dave Caussin?) sure looked intriguing, but it sounds like he only builds them once in a while.
Click to expand...

You are seeing his retirement hobby.
I'm guessing he has no interest in selling them, I mean look at the house in that video!
 
Croz said:
Bit disrespectful, could YOU build one yourself? you must be a young person, because when I started cnc programing e.t.c. back in 1980 "professional" machine tools were as slow if not slower on tool changing. the obsession with "chip to chip" toolchanging times has only been around for the last 20 odd years, before that it was positional accuracy/repeatability, next will be to get rid of dumbo button pushers! lol
Click to expand...

Could I build one myself? Maybe, given enough time and money. Would I want to? Hell no. Why bother, when there are machines that are available for a reasonable price that would run circles around this one. That being said, it looks like a lot of thought, engineering, and precision craftsmanship went into his project. Kudos. It doesn't change the fact that it's slow.

As far as being a young person, yes, you got me there. I've only been in the business since 1992, so I'm what you might call a "newbie." <That's internet kid speak, in case you didn't recognize. And yes, I do believe in the obsession with "chip to chip" toolchanging times, as it helps keep the shop I run in business and our machinists employed. Coincidentally, we are able, in this modern world, to have excellent positional accuracy and repeatability.
 
Croz said:
the obsession with "chip to chip" toolchanging times has only been around for the last 20 odd years, before that it was positional accuracy/repeatability, next will be to get rid of dumbo button pushers! lol
Click to expand...

100,000 tool changes x 7 seconds = 700,000

700,000 seconds = 194 hours

(100,000 tool changes isn't even a lot for a cnc)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

N
Machining School needs your knowledge and guidance.
2
Replies
33
Views
2K
706jim
7
M
Advice for New Large Machine Selection
2 3 4
Replies
70
Views
3K
Scruffy887
S
A
Opinions wanted - best CNC machine for this part?
2 3
Replies
40
Views
3K
Ox
Ox
O
machine recommendation big VTL with milling
Replies
8
Views
1K
ondori
O
O
Fanuc Series O-M Cant see Tool number location relative to tool pot in parameter list? Parameter 400s?
Replies
5
Views
825
onlygm
O








 

ABOUT PRACTICAL MACHINIST

With more than 10.6 million unique visitors over the last year, Practical Machinist is the most visited site for metalworking professionals. Practical Machinist is the easiest way to learn new techniques, get answers quickly and discuss common challenges with your peers. Register for the world’s largest manufacturing technology forum for free today to stay in the know.

Learn more about us.

STAY CONNECTED

Facebook Instagram YouTube LinkedIn Pinterest Twitter Tiktok

Register Become a forum member. Register today.

Sign Up Sign up for our e-newsletter.

© 2024 Copyright Practicalmachinist.com. All Rights reserved.

Back
Top