What is YOUR favorite end mill for roughing ALUMINUM?

STEVEN7685 · Mar 20, 2021

I work at a shop who's main focus is sheet metal fabrication.

However, we have recently found out that if we don't machine our own parts then we kind of can't afford to have the machined components. I have an AS degree in welding technology, but am the guy who has been designated the machinist which I'm totally cool with.

Anyway, we have had some help from a lifelong machinist pal who is kind enough to hold our hand through our first chips. So I'm kind of just doing what he taught me.

We have a 1992 Haas VF0 with 7k max RPM and a (IMO) very over estimated 10 HP spindle. Our 3 HP Bridgeport can take heavier cuts without stalling, but I digress.

I was taught to use a 3 flute 1/2" carbide uncoated end mill for aluminum. The sales person at our tooling supplier really likes to push M A FORD cutters. But is that the best option?

ATM I am roughing with one of these cutters at 6000 RPM, .3" DOC .24" Radial and 52.5 IPM feed Using Hangsterfer"s 503cf (I think) flood coolant. A MRR of 3.8? Again, I'm green.

What are your favorite tools for roughing aluminum?
Are there better choices than what I'm being sold?
Are there cutters that can rough more aggressively and load the spindle less?

I appreciate any input I can get from you skilled peoples!

Finegrain · Mar 20, 2021

Hoo boy, that's a precious roughing pass

.

I get >50 in^3/min with my 30-taper Brother Speedio -- 7HP? 8 HP? I forget.

The most efficient rougher I've found is Maritool 3-flute ZrN-coated carbide rougher. 16,000 RPM 288 IPM, .175" radial, 1-1/4" axial.

Next best is Destiny Diamondback 3-flute "Stealth" coating. Same parameters, but noisier and higher spindle load.

With your 7,000 RPM, I would try either of the above at .20" radial at first, then raise either the radial or the feed as desired.

Unless, your 1992 machine is super-sad and not making anything close to 10 HP :scratchchin:

Regards.

Mike

mhajicek · Mar 20, 2021

I don't usually cut aluminum. But when I do, I use a Helical brand material specific coated cutter, and I follow the recommended parameters from their Machining Advisor. If you have 7K RPM (ouch) use 7K RPM; that spindle won't last any longer at 6K, and you're leaving money on the table. I run 15K RPM all day long, and it's been good for 5+ years so far. With a Haas spindle only being a couple grand babying it will cost you enough in time to buy a new spindle on a regular basis anyway.

mutiny · Mar 20, 2021

I use a lot of Helical tools but their roughers are not good. Use MariTool or Destiny Diamondbacks using the feeds recommended above. I personally prefer the chips that Diamondbacks create and that's my solid carbide aluminum rougher of choice.

STEVEN7685 · Mar 20, 2021

Finegrain said:
Hoo boy, that's a precious roughing pass .

I get >50 in^3/min with my 30-taper Brother Speedio -- 7HP? 8 HP? I forget.

The most efficient rougher I've found is Maritool 3-flute ZrN-coated carbide rougher. 16,000 RPM 288 IPM, .175" radial, 1-1/4" axial.

Next best is Destiny Diamondback 3-flute "Stealth" coating. Same parameters, but noisier and higher spindle load.

With your 7,000 RPM, I would try either of the above at .20" radial at first, then raise either the radial or the feed as desired.

Unless, your 1992 machine is super-sad and not making anything close to 10 HP

Regards.

Mike

I'm pretty sure its not making anything close to 10 hp. That is why I mentioned that I think it is over estimated. we have a Seco face mill 2.5" diameter 5 flute that uses SEMX inserts R220.53-02.50-09-6A | Secotools.com . and no matter the rpm or feed I seem to use I cant seem to take a full diameter cut any more than about .05" without stalling the spindle (6061-t6). I can use the same cutter and take a .187 deep pass at full width on my 3 HP Bridgeport and it doesn't even hesitate.

the HAAS VF0 we have seems to stall the spindle at about 55-60% load (according to the meter on the control panel) and that just doesn't seem right.

cgrim3 · Mar 20, 2021

We typically don't cut aluminum (mostly stainless for us) but the iscar rep brought over some iscar endmills for aluminum only and they looked pretty good. Not sure how good they would be, but they looked cool.

I have heard the garr alumastar endmills are pretty good but have never used them. We use a lot of garr. I know garr is not the very best but we don't do a lot of milling. Do mostly lathe work.

I am tempted to try out nachi endmills though. Have heard very good things.

Just my .02 cents. Your mileage may vary

mjk · Mar 20, 2021

2nd the Maritool 3 flute
Have repeating job that requires a moderate amount of roughing, but the important thing is the blanks are held to the fixture by (2) 10-32 screws and 2 small index pins
i was using a good quality 2 flute carbide that was giving ok results.
Fine line between lots of material removed and ripping the blank out of the fixture
I had read a similar inquiry and responce and Franks 3 flute was suggested.

First time I ran it (3 fl 1/2") with same parameters, I thought the tool had been loaded incorrect as I heard the spindle running, but not a hint of cutting.
Shower of noiseless chips flying.
I cranked feed up about 150% from what I was running and still not a strain on the spindle or hint of blank movement.
That 1 end mill stays in the job bin and probably won't ever have to be replaced

STEVEN7685 · Mar 20, 2021

mjk said:
2nd the Maritool 3 flute

Any particular Maritool 3 flute? Happen to have a model number or any other reference. I apologize for my ignorance, if we're talking welding I'm pretty golden. But I'm still very much so learning this new to me machining world.

Finegrain · Mar 20, 2021

STEVEN7685 said:
Any particular Maritool 3 flute? Happen to have a model number or any other reference. I apologize for my ignorance, if we're talking welding I'm pretty golden. But I'm still very much so learning this new to me machining world.

This one: ZrN Coated 3/16 dia 3 Flute High Helix Carbide Rougher X .500 loc MariTool

There are a bunch of other diameters and lengths besides 1/2" x 1-1/4".

Regards.

Mike

Mr.M · Mar 20, 2021

We have used the Benchmark 350 series endmills (Now GWS) but for roughing the MA Ford roughers are the best I have found. Have to tested some of the other suggested above. The MA Fords are very free cutting. Helical I found the opposite to be true

STEVEN7685 · Mar 20, 2021

Mr.M said:
We have used the Benchmark 350 series endmills (Now GWS) but for roughing the MA Ford roughers are the best I have found. Have to tested some of the other suggested above. The MA Fords are very free cutting. Helical I found the opposite to be true

Mind you, or everyone for that matter. My tooling supplier told me that my roughing performance would not be much better with a corn Cobb style rougher. So he sells me regular helical flute MA Ford end mills.

mjk · Mar 20, 2021

From the same product page as listed above post #9

cgrim3 · Mar 20, 2021

anybody here use Garr? I know they are the more affordable brand and have a reputation of not lasting as long but we always have good luck with them.

Mr.M · Mar 20, 2021

STEVEN7685 said:
Mind you, or everyone for that matter. My tooling supplier told me that my roughing performance would not be much better with a corn Cobb style rougher. So he sells me regular helical flute MA Ford end mills.

The corncobs can really help reduce the load

gkoenig · Mar 20, 2021

So, given the HP/RPM limits on that machine, I might recommend going a bit old-school and look at the AB Tools Shear Hog. Single flue, .75" diameter, extraordinarily free cutting. These were the bees knees in aluminum back in the day, but higher RPM machines being the standard has moved us on to solid carbide tools like the Diamondback.

G00 Proto · Mar 20, 2021

I have a couple low rpm/ low hp machines. I have choked back to 3/8” endmills for roughing. I use as much depth of cut as the part and endmill will allow. 3/4” axial depth of cut seems to be a sweet spot (.875 length of flute). I use a fairly small radial depth of cut... generally start at 25% of cutter diameter and work up or down to get the spindle load where I want it. On old Haas machines I use 49 inches per minute.

For endmills I use YG-1 alupower for roughing and finishing.

For pure roughing I use 4 flute Cobalt corncob roughers. They are cheap and last plenty long. Usually increase my radial depth of cut to 45% of cutter diameter.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

STEVEN7685 · Mar 20, 2021

Mr.M said:
The corncobs can really help reduce the load

I think reducing the load is something that will make the machine happy.

STEVEN7685 · Mar 20, 2021

gkoenig said:
So, given the HP/RPM limits on that machine, I might recommend going a bit old-school and look at the AB Tools Shear Hog. Single flue, .75" diameter, extraordinarily free cutting. These were the bees knees in aluminum back in the day, but higher RPM machines being the standard has moved us on to solid carbide tools like the Diamondback.

I don't know if my hesitation is justified or not. Especially considering my lack of experience. But I am hesitant to use a single flute cutter.

Our mentor machinist pal swears by shear hogs (he's in his mid 60's) and has been a machinist for about 40 years. So maybe that's why he likes them? I've heard they are good cutters, but there are better. Whether that means better for my machine and situation I have yet to determine that.

I appreciate the recommendation

bastarddsm · Mar 21, 2021

I know everyone is gonna think I'm crazy, but YG1 has some aluminum specific HSS end mills. I use them and really like them. Kind of not a bad idea with your limited spindle rpm. I was slotting in some 1/4" 6061 plate a few days ago, 5000RPM, 50ipm, and was using 25-30% spindle load on my real 20hp machine. If you gotta have carbide 3 flute stuff, I like the YG1 Alupower stuff, and what maritool has as well. I only have an 8000rpm spindle, and so far most of my parts don't have a lot of material to remove, so I've not really pushed them.

Winterfalke · Mar 21, 2021

My preferred tool for removing a lot of aluminum was usually the 2" facemill first, followed by a 1" or 3/4" insert tool, all coolant through spindle. We had Garr 3 flutes for aluminum, but I never cared for them particularly. Nearly all my parts were severely limited by workholding, most of them going in a vacuum fixture, so lifting force was usually my biggest issue. I ran HSM style toolpaths with low helix tools, and managed to push our Haas VF2SS and VF4SS to their limits. I tried for years to get HSS inserts for the 3/4 tool, but what I really wanted was a 5 flute .500 EM with a variable flute spacing and an aluminum specific edge grind. Never found one, I had a demo 5 flute from someone (Lakeshore?) and while it wasn't aluminum specific, it cut a lot smoother and cleaner than our 3 or 4 flutes. That said, I almost never had an instance where I needed to cut full width, so gullet depth was a non-issue.

What is YOUR favorite end mill for roughing ALUMINUM?

Plastic

Diamond

Diamond

Cast Iron

Plastic

Cast Iron

Titanium

Plastic

Diamond

Cast Iron

Plastic

Titanium

Cast Iron

Cast Iron

Titanium

Hot Rolled

Plastic

Plastic

Aluminum

Stainless

Similar threads