What's your reason for not having a current backup of all your parameters? - Page 2
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  1. #21
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    How many people verify if the backup is valid?

    A significant number of backups are invalid even though they are reported as being okay and complete.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by macgyver View Post
    ...... So, my question is, what does it take to load the parameters on an OM from paper?
    Hour or so. Something to rest your arm on while you key them in.

    I have also tried typing a hard copy into my laptop then download the file. Took about the same amount of time.

    When I backup my machine. I make multiple copies. It has a card reader so one backup goes on the card. I also backup by RS232 to my laptop. I make a copy of that file to a thumb drive and finally have a factory hardcopy with some changes redlined in. The hardcopy is not as current as it could be. I don't usually double check/update it when I do a backup. I would only use it as a last resort. If I ever had to restore from it, the machine would run, but need a few parameters tweaked.

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  4. #23
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    Maybe some people would but aren't quite sure how to and don't go through the effort of pulling out the manuals and figuring out how to do a backup.

    Maybe it might be useful to post the backup procedure for a few of the most common controllers?

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  6. #24
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    As a 45 year service veteran in the nc/cnc field, I still deal weekly with people from all around the earth (flat or round...) with machines down due to lost parameters.
    The answer is not simple; most don't even know that there is a need for backup until it is too late. Bubble memory does fail, batteries die and there are other potential problem that can cause a control to lose all data.
    On certain Fanuc controls such as the 6,10,11,12 the pmc parameters had to be manually recorded (no serial in/out for these).
    On other controls, the name for data can change, e.g. on the '0' series the pmc data are called 'diagnostics'.
    F-RAM chips are NOT cheap: Mouser start at ~$5 for 128 kBytes and goes to ~$40 for 1 MBytes; they are mainly serial, so harder to implement.
    The backup/restore procedures vary by control manufacturer and often by model as well, making a unified procedure impossible.
    The personel who knows how to do this (and where the data is kept) retire, quit, move, die etc; so do their managers.
    On certain controls the machine has to be taken out of operation to even do backups (lost production) and some machines run programs that are hours or even days long and cannot be stopped.
    Just last week I restored a Fanuc 15A control locally and the maintenance manager want me to teach their people how to do this.
    I looked at doing the automated backup/restore for certain control (each model may need a different solution) but decided that the market did not justify the effort.
    Who will compensate for the many days it takes to setup a dedicated forum? What percentage of cnc users will even know about that forum existing?

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  8. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by memoryman View Post
    As a 45 year service veteran in the nc/cnc field, I still deal weekly with people from all around the earth (flat or round...) with machines down due to lost parameters........
    Yep. During the ~10 years I did field service, I'd probably do about 3 parameter recoveries per month. Some were pretty easy where there was still a hardcopy from when the machine was new. Those often got done in a day. Re-load what was on the sheet then update the things like backlash comps. Then test everything to figure out things like they had macros that were now gone and had to be found again reloaded and tested. Another one was that options were no longer correct. Can't helical mill anymore or similar. Pretty easy to use up a full day with all that and hand the shop a nice bill.

    On machines with no backup at all I have spent over a week getting everything going. 40 hours plus travel time makes for a hefty service bill. From a service engineer's POV though, those jobs were some of the best jobs. Rarely had to crawl around in chip crusted parts of the machine. Minimal tools required. No need for the coveralls. No heavy lifting except for a bunch of manuals.

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  10. #26
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    I have backups. And the backups are backed up. My CMM and other PC driven devices also. I also display the parameters on screen and photograph the screens, and those photos are backed up.

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  12. #27
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    My excuse is I have no idea how to do it. My machines are a used 2006 and a 2017 bought new. The new machine the installing tech made a backup and I haven't altered any parameters since then. On the 2006 I have made some changes to the parameters because of annoying alarms configurations. It took me an hour instead of minutes because of my inexperience.

    I was way out of my depth trying to figure out the parameters. It was like the first time making registry changes on my computer. I knew one screw up and the machine wasn't going to work right. I read the manuals on how to do it and they made things much more confusing. The Fanuc manual instructions where cryptic and only nominally in English. I was afraid I would mess something up from making a dumb mistake.

    I would love a clear concise instruction on how to do it. I back up my computers regularly as I know how and have a procedure. It would be great to have one for my CNC's also.

    Fanuc 0i-TC (2006) and Fanuc 0i-MF (2017)

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  14. #28
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    For those that are hesitant because of lack of knowledge, I'd advise considering calling a tech and having them do the backup and showing you how. Take some notes and you should be ready to do any needed future backups. It is a pretty quick service call for a tech to do this compared to trying to restore the machine from ground zero.

  15. #29
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    My 2 cents... If you don't know how to do it right now..

    TAKE PICTURES!!!

    The fact you are talking about it *now* means you are going to wake up tomorrow to
    a wiped out control. Its just the way Murphy works.

    Pictures are free now, its not like you have to buy film and then get it developed anymore.
    You may have to finger bang it all back in, but its a lot better than not having that data
    at all.

    On the other hand, if you have an old Fadal, you can just memorize them.

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  17. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vancbiker View Post
    Why do so many folks not do it?
    No tape punch port in current controls

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    Hahaha - I still got all the backups for every machine I've ever owned!
    And I don't own any now...

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    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    No tape punch port in current controls
    Pencil and paper still work in these modern times .

  21. #33
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    I just backed up my Siemens 828D today after reading this thread I had to email them to figure out how to do it. The backup was simple and it also backed up all my cut files.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gundog View Post
    I just backed up my Siemens 828D today after reading this thread ......
    Nice! This is exactly the point of the thread. Get folks to thinking about a backup and git'r done.

    Kinda like this thread I did a while back......

    January backup battery time

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  24. #35
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    This what they sent me for a backup on the Siemens 828D.

    "It is a good thing to do from time to time. Put a usb mem-stick into the machine and select ctrl, alt, S that will copy a file with a .ard extension to the root of the stick. The ARD file is your backup."

  25. #36
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    Close enough:


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  27. #37
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    If I had a nickel for every phone call /email I got when I worked for Doosan, on this topic, I wouldn't need to work at all. Truth is, most folk never give back ups a thought at all, until they need it. Then it hits them like a thunderclap. I've seen folk take the "bluebooks" out of the electrical cabinet and toss them in a file cabinet with a load of receipts and pocket litter, then cry the blues when we didn't immediately have backups of data they readily had. Sure we can get it from the factory - eventually - but you could've had it at your fingertips if you had a just a little common sense.

    I routinely make backups of machine tool files and parameters. I do the same for my PCs too.

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  29. #38
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    "I can't believe it, my car keys were in the last place I would look".

    I think some of it is plain procrastination. Or laziness. Like Douglass just pointed out, the masses think it's all readily available. Sorry I have to pick on Fanuc again, but because they give/allow so much MTB input and customization, people don't realuze how unique each piece of equipment is.

    R

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  31. #39
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    I listened to Vanc when i bought my VMC about 4 years ago and did a back up one copy on the computer a hard copy in the machine and pictures on my phone and i hope i never need them. I did the same after buying the Lathe to, Thanks Vanc for telling about this 4 years ago!

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