Who Has The Best Plunge Mill

chucker · Feb 25, 2021

What's your favorite Plunge mill? I use a .625 dia inserted replaceable head high feed mill from Seco, roughing a slot that is .642 wide and .375 deep some of the slots are up to 10' long, 5500 rpm 75 ipm with a .1 step over, the tool has always worked great, but we have been using it for a few years now, and I just feel it's time to look at upgrading the process, I know the 1st thought is why dont you just mill it, well we did for a while but with the fixturing and the part on the tombstone on our horizontal we just have to have to long of a reach, with the plunge mill all the force is back toward the spindle, so less side load on the cat 40 spindle and tools last longer.

Thanks for the Replies

Mtndew · Feb 25, 2021

My first choice would be Sandvik.
How long of a reach do you need?

BT Fabrication · Feb 25, 2021

Only plunge mills I know of are the unintended rapid Z moves. lol

chucker · Feb 25, 2021

Mtndew said:
My first choice would be Sandvik.
How long of a reach do you need?

little over 6"

Hardplates · Feb 25, 2021

I run mostly Kyocera with the LOGU030310 inserts in the small stuff, Tungaloy and Walter for the bigger stuff. But I rarely plunge mill

Mtndew · Feb 25, 2021

chucker said:
little over 6"

I know nothing of the Seco line, but look at the EH holders from Sandvik, they're awesome, screw on cutter.
We have a 1" 3 flute R390 in a holder with about that much reach and it cuts like butter, it's also non -dual contact so that's saying something.
If Seco is still a part of Sandvik, they might have something similar.

CAMasochism · Feb 25, 2021

Dijet's Super End Chipper mills work great at plunging. If you only want to use them for plunging then you can get the modular head that attaches to a solid carbide shank and go to town with them. Just be prepared to pay for them, but in my experience they work great and are well worth the price.

Jashley73 · Feb 25, 2021

chucker said:
What's your favorite Plunge mill? I use a .625 dia inserted replaceable head high feed mill from Seco, roughing a slot that is .642 wide and .375 deep some of the slots are up to 10' long, 5500 rpm 75 ipm with a .1 step over, the tool has always worked great, but we have been using it for a few years now, and I just feel it's time to look at upgrading the process, I know the 1st thought is why dont you just mill it, well we did for a while but with the fixturing and the part on the tombstone on our horizontal we just have to have to long of a reach, with the plunge mill all the force is back toward the spindle, so less side load on the cat 40 spindle and tools last longer.

Thanks for the Replies

Um, You do know that the HIGH FEED REPLACEABLE TIP on your Minimaster tool, can be used as a true HIGH FEED endmill, and still direct much of the cutting force back into the spindle, don't you...?

Jashley73 · Feb 25, 2021

Mtndew said:
I know nothing of the Seco line, but look at the EH holders from Sandvik, they're awesome, screw on cutter.
We have a 1" 3 flute R390 in a holder with about that much reach and it cuts like butter, it's also non -dual contact so that's saying something.
If Seco is still a part of Sandvik, they might have something similar.

Just FYI - Seco, Walter Tools, Sandvik Coromant, Precision Twist, Dormer-Pramet, and Safety (pronounced soff-uh-tee) and all of their sibsidiaries, are all part of a division of Sandvik Co - the large Swedish conglomerate which has its hands in metals production, mining equipment, hard materials (diamond, CBN raw materials) etc. Sometimes nick-named "Blue Sandvik" as their logo is blue... Contrary to popular though, there's not all that much technology sharing between the different sister companies, especially on the carbide insert side of things. They do share common production of steel tool bodies, but that's about it. Naturally, HR & benefits are all aligned under the "Blue Sandvik" policies...

Back on topic, your Screw-On R390 cutter is compatible with Walter's system, although the inserts etc. are not compatible. Seco's "Combi-Master" system is not compatible with that of Sandvik Coromant, and/or Walter's.

chucker · Feb 25, 2021

Jashley73 said:
Um, You do know that the HIGH FEED REPLACEABLE TIP on your Minimaster tool, can be used as a true HIGH FEED endmill, and still direct much of the cutting force back into the spindle, don't you...?

Yes you are correct the high feed was the direction I went from regular milling but with that long reach we found that we were bell mouthing our cat 40 spindles that's why we went to the plunge milling.

Milland · Feb 25, 2021

chucker said:
Yes you are correct the high feed was the direction I went from regular milling but with that long reach we found that we were bell mouthing our cat 40 spindles that's why we went to the plunge milling.

That's interesting. Usually toolholders are softer than the spindle taper, did you notice abnormal wear on the holder taper too, or just the spindle bore? And who's the machine manufacturer?

gregormarwick · Feb 26, 2021

chucker said:
Yes you are correct the high feed was the direction I went from regular milling but with that long reach we found that we were bell mouthing our cat 40 spindles that's why we went to the plunge milling.

Milland said:
That's interesting. Usually toolholders are softer than the spindle taper, did you notice abnormal wear on the holder taper too, or just the spindle bore? And who's the machine manufacturer?

BTDT.

It doesn't matter that the holders are softer, the material is removed by fretting, not wear.

High feed milling, if you are really chasing MRR, is hard on spindles that are not dual contact.

Jashley73 · Feb 26, 2021

I don't mean to be a jerk, but a 6" gage line tool, with a 5/8" diameter milling cutter should not be damaging a 40-taper spindle.

Is the total gage-length of the tool really just 6" long, or do you have to have a 6" of the cutter's shank hanging out of the collet - meaning a 10-14" gage-length?

For reference - I can put together a 2" diameter high-feed mill on a 6" long holder, and still cut 75-100" minute in 4140 pre-hard steel, on some old, junky, asian import 40-taper machines.

If you cannot high-feed mill with your 5/8" Seco Minimaster tool, something else is bad-wrong with your machine, or your setup...

Edit - I thought of this after typing the above...

chucker said:
What's your favorite Plunge mill? I use a .625 dia inserted replaceable head high feed mill from Seco, roughing a slot that is .642 wide and .375 deep some of the slots are up to 10' long, 5500 rpm 75 ipm with a .1 step over.

5500 RPM on a 5/8" diameter cutter = 900 sfm. That's awfully fast for that tool in steel. About 50% too fast on average.

Just what material are you cutting anyway? Putting the pieces together, you said Kansas, 10-long parts, 40-taper HMC - are these aircraft related, aluminum parts by chance?

gregormarwick · Feb 26, 2021

Jashley73 said:
I don't mean to be a jerk, but a 6" gage line tool, with a 5/8" diameter milling cutter should not be damaging a 40-taper spindle.

Is the total gage-length of the tool really just 6" long, or do you have to have a 6" of the cutter's shank hanging out of the collet - meaning a 10-14" gage-length?

For reference - I can put together a 2" diameter high-feed mill on a 6" long holder, and still cut 75-100" minute in 4140 pre-hard steel, on some old, junky, asian import 40-taper machines.

If you cannot high-feed mill with your 5/8" Seco Minimaster tool, something else is bad-wrong with your machine, or your setup...

I missed the size of the tool he was talking about.

Agree there is absolutely no way that should hurt the spindle taper in a million years.

Mtndew · Feb 26, 2021

Jashley73 said:
Just FYI - Seco, Walter Tools, Sandvik Coromant, Precision Twist, Dormer-Pramet, and Safety (pronounced soff-uh-tee) and all of their sibsidiaries, are all part of a division of Sandvik Co - the large Swedish conglomerate which has its hands in metals production, mining equipment, hard materials (diamond, CBN raw materials) etc. Sometimes nick-named "Blue Sandvik" as their logo is blue... Contrary to popular though, there's not all that much technology sharing between the different sister companies, especially on the carbide insert side of things. They do share common production of steel tool bodies, but that's about it. Naturally, HR & benefits are all aligned under the "Blue Sandvik" policies...

Back on topic, your Screw-On R390 cutter is compatible with Walter's system, although the inserts etc. are not compatible. Seco's "Combi-Master" system is not compatible with that of Sandvik Coromant, and/or Walter's.

Yes, I'm well aware of Sandvik and their other companies and how they operate. :rolleyes5:

chucker · Feb 26, 2021

Milland said:
That's interesting. Usually toolholders are softer than the spindle taper, did you notice abnormal wear on the holder taper too, or just the spindle bore? And who's the machine manufacturer?

Just the spindle

chucker · Feb 26, 2021

Jashley73 said:
I don't mean to be a jerk, but a 6" gage line tool, with a 5/8" diameter milling cutter should not be damaging a 40-taper spindle.

Is the total gage-length of the tool really just 6" long, or do you have to have a 6" of the cutter's shank hanging out of the collet - meaning a 10-14" gage-length?

For reference - I can put together a 2" diameter high-feed mill on a 6" long holder, and still cut 75-100" minute in 4140 pre-hard steel, on some old, junky, asian import 40-taper machines.

If you cannot high-feed mill with your 5/8" Seco Minimaster tool, something else is bad-wrong with your machine, or your setup...

Edit - I thought of this after typing the above...

5500 RPM on a 5/8" diameter cutter = 900 sfm. That's awfully fast for that tool in steel. About 50% too fast on average.

Just what material are you cutting anyway? Putting the pieces together, you said Kansas, 10-long parts, 40-taper HMC - are these aircraft related, aluminum parts by chance?

Its 1018 it is now aircraft thankfully.

Jashley73 · Feb 26, 2021

chucker said:
Its 1018 it is now aircraft thankfully.

How long is the tool, from tip to gage line?

chucker · Feb 26, 2021

Jashley73 said:
How long is the tool, from tip to gage line?

6" holder 1.1" stick out on tool total of 7.1"

Jashley73 · Feb 26, 2021

chucker said:
6" holder 1.1" stick out on tool total of 7.1"

Again, not to be a jerk, but something is bad wrong with your machine. In 1018, you should be able to take any cut you want with that cutter, at that length, in basically any spindle.

The first thing I'd be checking is drawbar tension.

Who Has The Best Plunge Mill

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