Why does FANUC allow me to call a tool without an offset?
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    Default Why does FANUC allow me to call a tool without an offset?

    Early this year I bought a new Doosan 2 axis slant bed with a FANUC control. This lathe is my first time having a FANUC control, and I am a bit annoyed with the control. I'm hoping someone can shed some light my concerns.

    When I am in REF or JOG mode, I can use the physical tool changer buttons to rotate the turret to any tool I want.

    However this is not the same as going into MDI and typing T0101. Because if you manually change tools using the hardware keypad, it will bring up the tool with NO OFFSET.

    I can't wrap my mind as to why this would ever be a good idea, if the turret is manually rotated it should by default apply the LAST KNOWN tool offset. There is absolutely no reason I would ever want the turret to rotate to a new tool with 0 offset. It is just straight up dangerous having a 7" long U-Drill sticking out while the machine thinks the pocket is at 0. I know you can have multiple offsets, so even if by default it would call up the first offset, I'd be fine with that cause that would make sense.

    Is there parameters I could modify so that it brings up the offsets on manual tool changes? or perhaps I'm missing something as to why FANUC has this behavious by default?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ondori View Post
    Early this year I bought a new Doosan 2 axis slant bed with a FANUC control. This lathe is my first time having a FANUC control, and I am a bit annoyed with the control. I'm hoping someone can shed some light my concerns.

    When I am in REF or JOG mode, I can use the physical tool changer buttons to rotate the turret to any tool I want.

    However this is not the same as going into MDI and typing T0101. Because if you manually change tools using the hardware keypad, it will bring up the tool with NO OFFSET.

    I can't wrap my mind as to why this would ever be a good idea, if the turret is manually rotated it should by default apply the LAST KNOWN tool offset. There is absolutely no reason I would ever want the turret to rotate to a new tool with 0 offset. It is just straight up dangerous having a 7" long U-Drill sticking out while the machine thinks the pocket is at 0. I know you can have multiple offsets, so even if by default it would call up the first offset, I'd be fine with that cause that would make sense.

    Is there parameters I could modify so that it brings up the offsets on manual tool changes? or perhaps I'm missing something as to why FANUC has this behavious by default?
    I think that is pretty standard on Fanuc/Haas controls. If I go into mdi and type in T1 atc fwd (or T1M06), it just calls up tool 1 or turret position 1. How does the control "know" what you want to do? If you are in manual mode you can use the tools however you want. If I want to check a clearance or something (in a Haas mill for example) I would type in

    Txx atc fwd
    g0 g90 g5x g43 Hxx Zx

    I'm not sure what else to say? The control needs you to tell it to activate a tool/work offset. Why would it apply the last known offset, and how would that help? In your example if you have a 7" ext on a drill, and the control automatically applied the last offset of say a 4" boring bar, you are still in trouble?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ondori View Post
    Early this year I bought a new Doosan 2 axis slant bed with a FANUC control. This lathe is my first time having a FANUC control, and I am a bit annoyed with the control. I'm hoping someone can shed some light my concerns.

    When I am in REF or JOG mode, I can use the physical tool changer buttons to rotate the turret to any tool I want.

    However this is not the same as going into MDI and typing T0101. Because if you manually change tools using the hardware keypad, it will bring up the tool with NO OFFSET.

    I can't wrap my mind as to why this would ever be a good idea, if the turret is manually rotated it should by default apply the LAST KNOWN tool offset. There is absolutely no reason I would ever want the turret to rotate to a new tool with 0 offset. It is just straight up dangerous having a 7" long U-Drill sticking out while the machine thinks the pocket is at 0. I know you can have multiple offsets, so even if by default it would call up the first offset, I'd be fine with that cause that would make sense.

    Is there parameters I could modify so that it brings up the offsets on manual tool changes? or perhaps I'm missing something as to why FANUC has this behavious by default?

    I use T0 all the time in program - like almost every tool change.
    On my Fanuc AND my Mits lathes.
    I call T0 and send X to a known safe index location. (X15. / X17.)

    I have up to 4 different tools in one location, I Shirley don't want to index to T6 and have the control thinking that I am expecting to use the last known at that location, when I'm thinking about that 7" long drill.

    I'm not sure how you or your control works that the offset would be of much value in Jog mode anyhow?
    I mean - if you are in JOG mode, you are looking at the set-up while you are jogging anyhow....
    Shirley your not jogging via the DRO?

    You would need to at least git into MDI before the offset would be of any value - no?


    ------------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox

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    You have described to different operations. A manual turret index where no offset is applied and an MDI command of a turret index and an offset applied.

    A manual tool change and MDI entry of T0x00 will result in the same thing. Turret indexed with no offset applied.

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    If I wasn't lazy, I would highlight the same part of the OP as Ox did.

    But indexing the Turret with the offset for the long Drill is not going to interrupt the process. You're still going to index it into the part or Chuck or whatever. I don't think I understand. The Machine needs very specific instructions. Honestly, I would prefer less intuition than more.

    R

    CNC Turning is scary dude. It's not like them gay ass Mill guys.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1974 View Post
    I'm not sure what else to say? The control needs you to tell it to activate a tool/work offset. Why would it apply the last known offset, and how would that help? In your example if you have a 7" ext on a drill, and the control automatically applied the last offset of say a 4" boring bar, you are still in trouble?
    Like Mike I can't see what the problem is. Personally I don't want my control to assume anything. Offsets especially. That means I'm no longer in charge. Knowing that the turret doesn't automatically add the last known offset is simple enough to remember and act accordingly by. Besides, calling say T0100 through MDI, though not what the OP is specifically talking about, calls tool 1 but doesn't insert any offset. Calling T0101 does assign the offset set in the control but until you move the turret with a command it doesn't physically apply it anyway. Although your Actual Position screen will show the offset change. At least that's how my new-ish to me machine seems to act.

    On my Fanuc 18i Mori lathe I use the manual buttons with extreme caution. This lathe has a very tight work envelope and is always a hairs breath away from crashing into itself. If there is a long tool in the turret it gets extra scary. Besides that the turret direction commands don't work in MDI. In Memory mode the turret goes closest direction which is great. I've even resorted to taping over the manual turret buttons as they're right next to the axis buttons and more then once I've touched a turret number up/down button by mistake. Thank god the turret doesn't actually turn until one more button push. Sometimes I stand there in fear looking at that massive crash that's about to happen, waiting for the tool number to stop blinking and the machine returning to ready a state.

    Dave
    Last edited by 13engines; 11-11-2019 at 11:40 AM. Reason: Error in one statement

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    Quote Originally Posted by litlerob1 View Post
    If I wasn't lazy, I would highlight the same part of the OP as Ox did.

    But indexing the Turret with the offset for the long Drill is not going to interrupt the process. You're still going to index it into the part or Chuck or whatever. I don't think I understand. The Machine needs very specific instructions. Honestly, I would prefer less intuition than more.

    R

    CNC Turning is scary dude. It's not like them gay ass Mill guys.
    Tell that to the people who threw that big ass facing head through their entire shop!

    Back on topic, I don't think OP quite understands what he is asking, or how to properly phrase it? The control, IMO, should never do anything you don't tell it to, like calling/activating a tool or fixture offset.

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    This lathe is my first time having a FANUC control, and I am a bit annoyed with the control.
    I'm just curious as to what control you came from that kept the value active with a manual change. Now that, sounds dangerous......

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    Quote Originally Posted by g-coder05 View Post
    I'm just curious as to what control you came from that kept the value active with a manual change. Now that, sounds dangerous......
    I guess it's Mazak. They automatically apply the offset when you do a manual turret index.

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    Quote Originally Posted by barratt View Post
    I guess it's Mazak. They automatically apply the offset when you do a manual turret index.
    I was kind of thinking either Mazak or Hurco would pull something like that. So, If there is three or four tools in the turret station how does it know witch offset to apply with manual rotations? Bare with me as I've only had enough time on Mazak to figure out I didn't like the control.

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    Quote Originally Posted by g-coder05 View Post
    I was kind of thinking either Mazak or Hurco would pull something like that. So, If there is three or four tools in the turret station how does it know witch offset to apply with manual rotations? Bare with me as I've only had enough time on Mazak to figure out I didn't like the control.
    This is what I was wondering too. The lathes at the auto industry supplier I did some service work at would often have a boring bar type tool with 3 inserts so they could machine all the features on a part with no turret indexing time waste. Which insert's offset you want it to use when manually indexing the turret? Better to make it explicit with an MDI or programmed command.

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    Mazak lathes will call the last known offset for that tool, if that tool has not been called yet it will default to the primary offset. Call T0101 will bring up tool 1 offset 1. Call T0101.2 it will bring up station 1 with offset #2 of tool 1. Call T0121.2 it will bring up station 1 offset #2 of tool !, and wear offset #21. Not sure about this for Mazatrol since I do not use it. This nice sometimes and willo bite you in the ass other times. MDI should be used everytime to make sure the correct offset is applied and set.

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    Ok I should have been more clear. However, I think I understand why the controller operates this way based on what Ox said and now it makes more sense. Except in my case, seems I'm doing things rather rudimentary.

    To recap; I only have a basic 12 tool turret 2 axis lathe. No driven tools, nothing fancy. There is one tool per pocket.

    Every time I add/remove tools, I always pull down the probe and I set its offsets. Unlike Ox (and likely everyone else but me) which has multiple tools and matching offsets, which he interchanges between. I can see myself doing that with U-drills that have a dead stop on the collar, and I always mount them flush. While other turning tools, have no way for me to swap tools without probing each tool, and I don't mind probing I prefer it.

    So now think of it this way;

    1. My tool 12 pocket has a 7" u drill that was already probed and offsets set to T1212.

    2. The FANUC operator panel has a little window that shows the current tool (not the actual screen, but the two large red clock radio style numbers). there are also buttons to go up or down and a button in the middle to confirm the tool, which causes the turret to rotate.

    3. If I switch to this tool using the hardware keys, it will pull up T1200, and not T1212 as I want.

    4. I now go and touch off my workpiece and set G54.

    5. I run my program which calls for T1212 and as you guessed it, I'm 7" away.

    As you know, the way to do it is, MDI -> T1212. Up until this thread, I had assumed that my 1st "default" offset should always be same as the tool numbers like T1212 or T0303 and that T0300 was reserved for the actual zero position of the face of the turret.

    This is why I was getting annoyed because the manual tool changer buttons were useless for me because they don't bring up offsets. So whats the point of using them, if they are missing the most critical part (the offset). And so that I don't ever make this mistake and probe a tool in the wrong offset, I've made it a process to never use those 3 keys and always MDI - T####.

    This controller was a learning curve, because I literally had to teach myself using the supplied manuals. So a lot of this stuff didn't seem too intuitive to me.

    Anyways, my thought was that the manual hardware keys should bring up the tool and its 1st offset by default, because that's a lot better than no offset.

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    Quote Originally Posted by litlerob1 View Post

    CNC Turning is scary dude. It's not like them gay ass Mill guys.
    Them's fight'n werds washer maker.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ondori View Post
    Ok I should have been more clear. However, I think I understand why the controller operates this way based on what Ox said and now it makes more sense. Except in my case, seems I'm doing things rather rudimentary.

    To recap; I only have a basic 12 tool turret 2 axis lathe. No driven tools, nothing fancy. There is one tool per pocket.

    Every time I add/remove tools, I always pull down the probe and I set its offsets. Unlike Ox (and likely everyone else but me) which has multiple tools and matching offsets, which he interchanges between. I can see myself doing that with U-drills that have a dead stop on the collar, and I always mount them flush. While other turning tools, have no way for me to swap tools without probing each tool, and I don't mind probing I prefer it.

    So now think of it this way;

    1. My tool 12 pocket has a 7" u drill that was already probed and offsets set to T1212.

    2. The FANUC operator panel has a little window that shows the current tool (not the actual screen, but the two large red clock radio style numbers). there are also buttons to go up or down and a button in the middle to confirm the tool, which causes the turret to rotate.

    3. If I switch to this tool using the hardware keys, it will pull up T1200, and not T1212 as I want.

    4. I now go and touch off my workpiece and set G54.

    5. I run my program which calls for T1212 and as you guessed it, I'm 7" away.

    As you know, the way to do it is, MDI -> T1212. Up until this thread, I had assumed that my 1st "default" offset should always be same as the tool numbers like T1212 or T0303 and that T0300 was reserved for the actual zero position of the face of the turret.

    This is why I was getting annoyed because the manual tool changer buttons were useless for me because they don't bring up offsets. So whats the point of using them, if they are missing the most critical part (the offset). And so that I don't ever make this mistake and probe a tool in the wrong offset, I've made it a process to never use those 3 keys and always MDI - T####.

    This controller was a learning curve, because I literally had to teach myself using the supplied manuals. So a lot of this stuff didn't seem too intuitive to me.

    Anyways, my thought was that the manual hardware keys should bring up the tool and its 1st offset by default, because that's a lot better than no offset.
    Usefull to index to a certain tool to change an insert, or check an insert/cutting edge. You'll find out in machining (in general- manual, cnc, tool&die) there are about fortyeleven different ways to get to the same end point. Using mdi always isn't a bad way to go, but depending on control, sometimes just faster to hit turret/tool forward/reverse.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ondori View Post
    Ok I should have been more clear. However, I think I understand why the controller operates this way based on what Ox said and now it makes more sense. Except in my case, seems I'm doing things rather rudimentary.

    To recap; I only have a basic 12 tool turret 2 axis lathe. No driven tools, nothing fancy. There is one tool per pocket.

    Every time I add/remove tools, I always pull down the probe and I set its offsets. Unlike Ox (and likely everyone else but me) which has multiple tools and matching offsets, which he interchanges between. I can see myself doing that with U-drills that have a dead stop on the collar, and I always mount them flush. While other turning tools, have no way for me to swap tools without probing each tool, and I don't mind probing I prefer it.

    So now think of it this way;

    1. My tool 12 pocket has a 7" u drill that was already probed and offsets set to T1212.

    2. The FANUC operator panel has a little window that shows the current tool (not the actual screen, but the two large red clock radio style numbers). there are also buttons to go up or down and a button in the middle to confirm the tool, which causes the turret to rotate.

    3. If I switch to this tool using the hardware keys, it will pull up T1200, and not T1212 as I want.

    4. I now go and touch off my workpiece and set G54.

    5. I run my program which calls for T1212 and as you guessed it, I'm 7" away.

    As you know, the way to do it is, MDI -> T1212. Up until this thread, I had assumed that my 1st "default" offset should always be same as the tool numbers like T1212 or T0303 and that T0300 was reserved for the actual zero position of the face of the turret.

    This is why I was getting annoyed because the manual tool changer buttons were useless for me because they don't bring up offsets. So whats the point of using them, if they are missing the most critical part (the offset). And so that I don't ever make this mistake and probe a tool in the wrong offset, I've made it a process to never use those 3 keys and always MDI - T####.

    This controller was a learning curve, because I literally had to teach myself using the supplied manuals. So a lot of this stuff didn't seem too intuitive to me.

    Anyways, my thought was that the manual hardware keys should bring up the tool and its 1st offset by default, because that's a lot better than no offset.

    I'm still not following where the problem lies?

    What is the point in having an offset active or not if you are setting (probing?) your new tool?
    Aren't you simply going to index to that position and then jog up to the probe and touch off?
    Unless your ladder is written all bass=akwards, I wouldn't think that the probe would look at the offset when touching off?
    Your ladder should not look at G54 or Grid Shift, or any other thing like that either when probing.

    I have no clue how you are getting 7" off on an probe touch off?

    Now - if you are facing your part and then manually touching your tool off to that, and editing the offset from there (like I doo) then - yes, you could possibly get 7" off if you have your offset live already and then add another 7".

    ???

    You don't need to have a fancy machine to have 2 offsets per pocket either.
    I built stick holders for 2 of the pockets on first lathe a long time ago. You need to be a bit carefull when setting/programming for that if both tools looking the same direction tho. Typically you want the furthest out tool set =/< the inbound tool if possible so that you don't clip it off when rapiding the inbound tool to position.

    If you doo need to have it sticking out further, then you need to be aware and edit the program to:

    G0 X0 Z2.
    Z.1
    G1 Z-1.
    G0 Z4.
    T0 X15. (G28 U0 if you prefer?)


    ------------------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox

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    You don't need to have a fancy machine to have 2 offsets per pocket either.
    As Ox said, You can load each pocket up with tools with a little creativity. I have a bunch of 1" blocks that have a Center Drill, Drill and Tap for most of the common sizes that stay loaded with the cutters on the shelf. Just slap em in an OD tool slot and probe em. Also, That U-drill makes a good boring bar so rather than trying to do the math and shift off of X0 to bore you could keep a separate X in a set of offsets and simplify your boring cycles.

    As Mike said, Lathes are scary and bad things happen real fast so double check everything.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CAMasochism View Post
    Them's fight'n werds washer maker.
    As if!!! Very low risk job--CAM jockey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by litlerob1 View Post
    As if!!! Very low risk job--CAM jockey.
    Yer jus jealous as I ken make any shape I so desire while yer stuck mak'n EGGS.

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    I still don't know what OP is asking and what the issue is.


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