Would someone like to try out this 4th axis fixture? - Page 5
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  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by D Smith View Post
    Link works for me, Does PM block youtube links sometimes?

    in youtube search bar type Moreside fixture indexing
    It works now.
    Youtube links usually work on my end...

  2. #82
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    The link werked for me right away.


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    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by D Smith View Post
    Yuasa Accudex has bearings,I love those things but try and spin one of those with one hand! They sell a cheaper 8" index space without but I don't get the feeling of precision and accuracy with zero play with out the bearings. A friend has an EDM shop and paid $3K for a custom 5c indexer that is Herman Schmidt quality and it has no bearing but was totally ground on a jig bore and he has to take it apart and clean it occasionally.
    What price range were you shooting for?

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    I think if someone has a 4th axis already the target price to be able to convert it to 5 axis indexing should be around $3,000. Some of the $10K-$22K alternatives are still just more than us small shops can shell out. For a one man shop in the last 3 months I've used my fixtures to increase productivity and make $50K more with them. In the end my main business is prototype work and the fixtures are just a tool to do that. We are all machine shops that can make our own fixtures and I welcome anyone to duplicate any of mine on there own. I really like this one for a little larger work.
    YouTube

  5. #85
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    I was confused with this statement in post #53.

    "There was some positional error as well but not enough to make a difference in the parts we do. I want to say that on a part programmed with center of rotation origin, the parts they made were within tolerance by .003 on a few positions that had a .005 +/- and they weren't a repeatable error."

    I tossed it up on the machine and bolted a Suburban tool 123 block, indicated it level with a Starret .0001" indicator and rotated it 180 degrees and indicated that surface. Take a look at the video and please let me know if you expect better accuracy.
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  6. #86
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    D Smith,

    I looked at the rest of your videos. I thought the single op, thermal lens adapter, was awesome!
    Strong work!

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  8. #87
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    So lets check the centerline of the B axis. I set it up with a .0001" indicator at 90 degree's and found the high spot, set to Zero and raised Z to clear, rotated the fixture to -90 degree's and check the difference. .0003" total indicator run out puts the B axis centerline with in .00015". Along with the indexing under 1 arc second I feel pretty confident that this fixture is capable of making accurate parts.
    YouTube

  9. #88
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    I really don't see what that shows about your unit at all?
    You didn't index your unit at all.

    How little lash is in the Haas unit possibly?


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    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox

  10. #89
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    To me is shows that the centerline of -90 and +90 is within .00015" of center of the A axis. I'm indicating opposite sides of the B axis spindle 180 degree's rotation. If the B axis was .01" off center to the A axis then this test would have shown .020" on the Z readout. I would have liked to index the spindle in both -90 and +90 but with out something to grab on to it was not possible. Could you give me what you would like to see? More than happy to do so.

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    Not saying that your platter is out at all.
    Not saying that I want to see something else.

    I take it that you indicated the A square before hand?

    But in your test, maybe side B IS out .01, and should result in a .02 discrepancy...

    BUT - when you index A to 180, there is a bit of lash, and it really only indexes 179.98 (or whatever..)
    So A comes up slightly light on the rotation, but the TIR of the platter is enough that it still shows almost right?

    Or - how accurate is the worm wheel in the A in the first place?
    Any wear at 0 or 180?

    Personally the whole thing seems AWFULLY impressive that you got those numbers at all, just saying that it seems to be more a testimate to the A and not really anything to the B.


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    Ox

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    OK, So lets try this one. I cut a square, Rotate A axis to -90, Check Z height and run out, Which in this case actually shows the Haas HRT160 is .0004" out of square to the table which I have tested with an indicator in the spindle going up and down the table face in Z, but getting back to checking the four sides you see there is .0003" variation all four sides, this again confirms that the B axis centerline is .00015"(just over 1/10,000") from the A axis. As for your Haas HRT's accuracy I can not guarantee. I know that mine has less than 4 arc seconds backlash. I was wrong on my HRT backlash. I just had to go test it. Post below show results
    YouTube
    Last edited by D Smith; 06-03-2020 at 12:25 PM. Reason: admitting I was wrong on backlash

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    I don't git that one either.

    You obviously was able to zero your X and Y with the C/L of rotation, but .... ????

    What is it that YOU are trying to show there?


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    I think that if you want to show how close that you are holding true 90*, you should go deck one side, index, repeat x 3.

    Now run a dial incidator up and down in Z on the adjacent surface.


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    Ox

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    I just had to check it and I was wrong. Haas says 30 arc seconds and mine is 18 arcseconds. Check it out and see what yours is.
    YouTube
    arc2.jpgarc1.jpg

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  17. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ox View Post
    I think that if you want to show how close that you are holding true 90*, you should go deck one side, index, repeat x 3.

    Now run a dial incidator up and down in Z on the adjacent surface.


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    Ox
    That was the idea with the 123 block and it showed .0001" run out when checked 180 degree's. I could go back and redo all four sides but short on time right now. I think that is a better example since the Suburban 123 block is ground square. I cant say my machine will cut better than they can grind. But I am feeling good knowing I'm scrutinizing .0001" when Haas spec for the HRT160 is 30 arc seconds back lash.

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    Yes, I agree with the 123 block thing.
    That was a good test.

    I don't have an A hooked up right now, and the B on my horizontal is 1* indexing, so no lash, but it will show any deviation from actual on the CRT.
    Not sure that I run anything that needs to be closer than a RCCH at this time anyhow. As long as it repeats, I can code around it.

    2 of my A's likely have a lot more mileage on them than yours does anyhow...


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    Quote Originally Posted by Ox View Post
    I don't git that one either.

    You obviously was able to zero your X and Y with the C/L of rotation, but .... ????

    What is it that YOU are trying to show there?


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    Ox
    What I am trying to show is that if you face a block at A90 and Z1.0" above center and then face the block at A-90 at Z1.0" above center that you can put a micrometer on in and it will measure 2.000" +-.00015, and this is due to the A and B axis's being on center in the X axis. This in my mind is one of the most important things. Imagine doing the above cuts as described but it measured 2.025" or the features machined at A90 do not line up with A-90 because your part spins like a dog leg on a BBQ?
    Also would love to know how the worn rotary tables compare so we all have reference. Remember 3" off center and use .0001" indicator.

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    And let me be the first to check the math on the 123 block video. After seeing the HRT160 getting 18 arc seconds accuracy I had to question my results on the 123 block test. I put the decimal in the wrong place. Not .734 arc seconds, actually 7.34 arc seconds. Sorry for misleading info. Should have used the online dec/arc calculator the first time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by D Smith View Post
    What I am trying to show is that if you face a block at A90 and Z1.0" above center and then face the block at A-90 at Z1.0" above center that you can put a micrometer on in and it will measure 2.000" +-.00015, and this is due to the A and B axis's being on center in the X axis. This in my mind is one of the most important things. Imagine doing the above cuts as described but it measured 2.025" or the features machined at A90 do not line up with A-90 because your part spins like a dog leg on a BBQ?
    Also would love to know how the worn rotary tables compare so we all have reference. Remember 3" off center and use .0001" indicator.
    ... and I don't think that your process proves anything other than the spot that you zero'd your Y is on C/L of the A axis.
    You didn't move the indexer at all. You could have just bolted the part down to your trunnion and done the same thing.

    Please understand that I am NOT trying to dog on your unit in any way, and your 123 block test looks impressive as for indexing.
    We don't know if there was any part lift or not, but I'm guessing not. (platter in and out)

    I just don't think that your other tests are showing much if anything related to the B is all.


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    Ox

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  23. #100
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    I thought hard aoubt that last night and came to the same conclusion. I'll admit I'm a little rattled on my thought process and how to show the fixtures accuracy. No matter what a video shows with a .0001" indicator and calculating arc seconds and so on but the post that will be remembered is about its not worth China copying because its barely capable of repeating with in .005". All I can say is I can cut a square in the X-Y plane, Rotate A axis 90, measure the top, Flip A axis -90 and that surface is within .0002" of A90, Index B axis and all four sides are within a few tenths. That's the exact purpose and way you would make parts with it. I'm just glad I got it back after 3 months. I wish that I had got feedback from him before I mentioned I could not contact him but I couldn't get any response of any kind. I know the covid thing affected us all so I don't have any ill feelings. Now I will put in the new hardened index ring and open up the o-ring tolerance and run the piss out of it. The other shop has had Rev 2 for awhile and I've seen some Instagram posts already so it all works out in the end.

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