WTF is this motion under heavy load?
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    Default WTF is this motion under heavy load?

    YouTube

    Titan (boom, and all that) posted this video with some Kennametal end mill doing full slotting in 1018. Someone asked if this was adaptive toolpath, to which he said it isn't... just the machine flexing under load.

    So seriously, WTF is this? Just what happens when DMG hands you a free mill, and Kennametal hands you free tooling and you want to abuse a quarter million bucks worth of gear or what?

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    I saw that and was looking at how much gage length that holder has. Thinking most of the flex is probably in the holder, you would think Titan of all people pushing a bit that hard would of found the shortest gage length holder he could. But then the guy typically irritates me. I mean he's no doubt doing good things for the industry but he just comes off irritating to me.

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    He's using that machine in ways it's not really intended for, IMO. That's not an ax, it's a rapier, so that movement is axis shifting along with the spindle screaming a bit for help.

    Still, an impressive display of that endmill's capability. Glad it's not my machines though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JP Machining View Post
    I mean he's no doubt doing good things for the industry but he just comes off irritating to me.
    He is apparently a really very nice, very normal guy in real life, but the Reality TV bug bit him hard, so if you point a camera at him, it's all BOOM and orangutan orgasm moans. I guess it works for him? I find it annoying as hell and doesn't lead to the impression that our industry is chocked full of smart folks.

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    Cannot spell it, but looks like abbreviated tri***al milling code. Code is very simple, straight line. Let machine flex harmonics do the path.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gkoenig View Post
    YouTube

    Titan (boom, and all that) posted this video with some Kennametal end mill doing full slotting in 1018. Someone asked if this was adaptive toolpath, to which he said it isn't... just the machine flexing under load.

    So seriously, WTF is this? Just what happens when DMG hands you a free mill, and Kennametal hands you free tooling and you want to abuse a quarter million bucks worth of gear or what?



    ^^^ Joe Pie's explanation of cutter flex is a good counter point.

    On the Gilroy vid you can see the dynamic that Joe Pie' is talking about here but cray cray beyond.

    You can see the cutter flex, the tool holder flex and the spindle nose / spindle assembly flex a little bit also. I don't know if the DMG MORI 20K spindle has ceramic bearings or not ?

    Maybe he should watch that Makino tool bending moment video ROFL...

    Maybe he has a good feel for how far you can bend and flex expensive machinery ? (cough cough).

    Personally I think Titan Gilroy would have more fun as a demolition expert than a machinist. Hey, a wrecking ball and few buildings is good therapy for anybody. Blowing up an old sky-rise (controlled demolition) is even more fun.

    __________________________________________________ ____________________________


    Base price for DMU 50 3rd gen is at least $300K (minimal options).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scruffy887 View Post
    Cannot spell it, but looks like abbreviated tri***al milling code. Code is very simple, straight line. Let machine flex harmonics do the path.
    He always says Tri-cordial tool path (like three different flavors of Kool-Aid mixed together.) when its' Trochoidal [Trochoidal ] milling. Kind of a dyslexitization ?

    Ohh well (shrugging shoulders) / who cares / he means well is trying to do something / his thang.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cameraman View Post
    He always says Tri-cordial tool path (like three different flavors of Kool-Aid mixed together.) when its' Trochoidal [Trochoidal ] milling. Kind of a dyslexitization ?

    Ohh well (shrugging shoulders) / who cares / he means well is trying to do something / his thang.
    __________________________________________________ ____________________


    * Trochoid - Wikipedia

    ^^^ Yup another douchey Wikki link (from me) , but always wondered what actually defines a "Trochoid" ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by JP Machining View Post
    I mean he's no doubt doing good things for the industry
    How? By teaching new machinists how to destroy machines?

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    The step-step-step on the first 60 to 70 percent of the pass are super interesting and why did it quit near the end?
    I don't think it was programmed in and look at the floor.
    It also does not look like just endmill flex.
    It looks like a servo "I" response which makes no sense on a good machine.
    I do like the cut. This is how you move metal.
    None of that weenie take five or ten passes and only use the .050/.200 thou end of the cutting tool.
    Yes this rough cut will not be straight and you know that. You are entering conventional and the front side guy and it's good bottom friend in the cut is not happy for steering.
    Even at much less depth the bottom guy has something to say about bend to one side. Many just see side in endmilling and ignore the bottom working.
    That underside guy will bite your ass.
    Bob

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    Quote Originally Posted by gkoenig View Post
    So seriously, WTF is this? Just what happens when DMG hands you a free mill, and Kennametal hands you free tooling and you want to abuse a quarter million bucks worth of gear or what?
    Half a million bucks.

    That's the type of cut you take in a 50-taper box way HBM, not a high speed HSK63 5-axis.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Radar987 View Post
    Half a million bucks.

    That's the type of cut you take in a 50-taper box way HBM, not a high speed HSK63 5-axis.
    All that money not needed.
    I think my early gen 2 Milwaukee-matic would have made this simple.
    Oh I want box ways, I want linerar, I want sub microsecond true to axis rotarys, I want less than a wavelength of white light inside my machine adjustments so I can hold a decent six-sigma.
    Bob

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    Quote Originally Posted by CarbideBob View Post
    All that money not needed.
    I was referring to the total value of the DMU50 being destroyed in the video.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CarbideBob View Post
    Yes this rough cut will not be straight and you know that. You are entering conventional and the front side guy and it's good bottom friend in the cut is not happy for steering.
    Even at much less depth the bottom guy has something to say about bend to one side. Many just see side in endmilling and ignore the bottom working.
    That underside guy will bite your ass.
    Bob
    This^^^^

    Not all tool flex, it goes through the whole machine structure to some extent. A #60 taper likely would break that endmill but will still show a little flexing in the machine tool. A 2" endmill can really start to "boss" a machine around...

    Matt

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    Quote Originally Posted by Radar987 View Post
    Half a million bucks.

    That's the type of cut you take in a 50-taper box way HBM, not a high speed HSK63 5-axis.
    I think he paid for the machine / not free but could have had a good discount.

    It HAS as 36 month warranty on the spindle with no hour limit lol. (I'm sure that's at the back of his mind.)

    I wonder if Gilroy got the 15K rpm spindle with the 61 hp and 147 ft lb of torque option.

    The high torque spindles on the NVX 3 axis verticals had a bit too much umpf for a 40 taper and DMG Mori would attempt to persuade folks that the machine is more appropriately spec'd as a 50 taper machine / type work even though it's now targeted for mold work (scratching head) ? They've changed the spindle bearings on those also to be beefier than they were.

    Titan does not appear to do very much 5 axis work / demos on the machine ? (Mainly 3 axis cutting tests with that spindle ) I wonder if everything is going well with DMG Mori + integration with CAD CAM solution ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by cameraman View Post
    Titan does not appear to do very much 5 axis work / demos on the machine ? I wonder if everything is going well with DMG Mori + integration with CAD CAM solution ?
    I think he is on Fusion/Inventor HSM. Look, there are guys who are doing some neat 5 axis stuff with these packages, but you need to be *really* dedicated to the software, tweaking your own post, and putting up with a bunch of limitations if you want to do simultaneous 5 axis work with it. That DMG wants code from Hypermill, Powermill, or NX to really sing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gkoenig View Post
    I think he is on Fusion/Inventor HSM. Look, there are guys who are doing some neat 5 axis stuff with these packages, but you need to be *really* dedicated to the software, tweaking your own post, and putting up with a bunch of limitations if you want to do simultaneous 5 axis work with it. That DMG wants code from Hypermill, Powermill, or NX to really sing.
    They use powermill and have done numerous 5 axis demos on their HAAS UMC 750.

    I think the DMU 50 3rd gen spindle has quite a bit more balls to it than the HAAS(s) he currently has in his shop / academy .

    Previous operations he owned and ran he was using things like Toyoda horizontals and the like.

    MRR(s) seem to be Titan's main interest and just "Murdering it" as he would say. "Crazy efficiencies". + the Kennametal tools for aerospace derived from Boeing competition / specs / contract. Some of the end mills seem to do the impossible. + sponsorship.

    Still kinda odd not much 5 axis "Action" from his DMU 50 3rd gen. There are some multi axis roughing tool paths that are pretty amazing that I would have thought would be up his alley/ street.

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    Sure looks like most of that is the tool holder flexing. Doesn't seem like there was enough noise for the tool-spindle interface to be moving...

    If that was a 40 taper that would have gone south very quick. Dual contact and high retention force is what kept that from detonating.

    In any case that's got to be really rough on the hsk interface in the spindle - not to mention the retention mechanism. Straight up abuse really.

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    I put a posting on his FB page (like others did) that he wiped off...
    If you look at the machine design, it's a Y axis overhung on rails.

    At 1.48, the cutter engages and the holder is "wobbling" but if you look at the screw hole in the spindle cartridge, you can see that is moving too.
    But near the middle of the cut (1.52) it "settles" and isn't moving.
    It is not a trocoidal path - it is a straight slot.

    I think the "toolholder wobble" is a bit of toolholder flexing and a bit of drawbar pressure being overcome.
    Look at the attacked pic of the floor of the slot. The bad movement is clearly shown (1).

    BUT I think the real problem is the machine design - where it's a cantilever Y, my money is on the fact that the whole head/casting is moving in the rails where the head is so far out (being unsupported) and as the head moves back (beyond the photo "1") the engagement of the axis into the rails is now more supported and thus does not flex.

    Shit machine design.

    But kudos to the cutter - that's one strong mofo
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails capture.jpg  

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    Quote Originally Posted by barbter View Post
    BUT I think the real problem is the machine design - where it's a cantilever Y, my money is on the fact that the whole head/casting is moving in the rails where the head is so far out (being unsupported) and as the head moves back (beyond the photo "1") the engagement of the axis into the rails is now more supported and thus does not flex.

    Shit machine design.

    But kudos to the cutter - that's one strong mofo
    this is supposedly what it looks like:
    maxresdefault.jpg

    I'm not very experienced with this, but I wouldn't call that a shit design...

    the thing is, when that tool holder started to wobble in the spindle, you don't see normal "steady" loads, whenever the tool is going back and forth it creates extra dynamic loads on the machine frame, and as others said - mainly due to the holder design, shorter holder may have never started to wobble, didn't induce extra loads and the whole machine wouldn't even start to resonate

    he should have another video showing what that tool holder and spindle interface surfaces now look like

    about the cutter, app chart says Fz ~0.10mm (0.12-20%) at 1.25xD, and he did 2.50xD at same Fz, it survived, but how long would it last?


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