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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mtndew View Post
    Oh, and for worst website ever? I'd have to give it to Maryland Metrics.
    It will burn your retinas.
    MARYLAND METRICS 'HOME PAGE'
    Don't ever share shit like that again. It's like the rape version of "rickroll".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rewt View Post
    Don't ever share shit like that again. It's like the rape version of "rickroll".
    lol that site has been bright yellow for as long as I can remember.
    Literally 2 seconds of looking at it is too much.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alloy Mcgraw View Post
    I don't watch Titans stuff, not really interesting to me. His stuff is almost like any "reality" based programming, drama must be added to interest viewers. I'm interested in machining, not drama.

    That being said...It looks to me like he was promoting an endmill, not a machine. Regardless of what's going on there, it is impressive that the endmill didn't blow up, and it took some serious cuts/abuse.

    It does say something about the product, and I think that was the message he was trying to convey.

    The video has people talking, mission accomplished.
    I appreciate your assessment. Concise, succinct and focused on the actual topic- tool promotion.

    Is there a single word for that so that I may use it in emails?

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  6. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mtndew View Post
    lol that site has been bright yellow for as long as I can remember.
    Literally 2 seconds of looking at it is too much.
    Looks like they designed it with Geocities old web page designer, circa 1995. If anyone remembers that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rewt View Post
    Looks like they designed it with Geocities old web page designer, circa 1995. If anyone remembers that.
    Yup, I do.

    I made a whole website in notepad rather than using that.

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  10. #66
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    Newer DMG Mori machines are quite sensitive to things going wrong in a cut and will stop the machine before the real damage happens.

    If the spindle bogs down, it'll trip an "excessive speed error" alarm.

    If an axis bogs down, it'll trip an axis positioning error alarm.

    If a toolholder begins to pull out of the spindle, it'll trip a "tool not clamped" alarm.

    Amazing that none of those alarms tripped here...

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  12. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orange Vise View Post
    Newer DMG Mori machines are quite sensitive to things going wrong in a cut and will stop the machine before the real damage happens.

    If the spindle bogs down, it'll trip an "excessive speed error" alarm.

    If an axis bogs down, it'll trip an axis positioning error alarm.

    If a toolholder begins to pull out of the spindle, it'll trip a "tool not clamped" alarm.

    Amazing that none of those alarms tripped here...
    Well unfortunately even the most advanced machines can't cope with an ID:10t Error.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mtndew View Post
    their site is great... IF you already know the part number. If not... good luck.
    Haha word. Ive been using sandvik for years and I still have no idea about there website. I can only find shit I know the number for.

    Sendt fra min EML-L29 med Tapatalk

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    I can't tell a whole lot as the frame rate is too slow and it is a rolling zero or shutter on the camera.
    I'm not sure the taper unloads or a harmonic is hit with the tool/machine stiffness.
    But the system is most certainly oscillating and it damps out near the end.
    Still..... this is one hell of an impressive cut. I do wonder how it all looks at 10, 50 or 200 pieces run.

    People love him or hate him which is weird. I think he is aggressive and the big bull in videos because that sells. His stature helps here also.
    "America loves a winner" and he is successful.
    Bob

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    Quote Originally Posted by Orange Vise View Post
    Newer DMG Mori machines are quite sensitive to things going wrong in a cut and will stop the machine before the real damage happens.

    If the spindle bogs down, it'll trip an "excessive speed error" alarm.

    If an axis bogs down, it'll trip an axis positioning error alarm.

    If a toolholder begins to pull out of the spindle, it'll trip a "tool not clamped" alarm.

    Amazing that none of those alarms tripped here...
    If it's an analogue drawbar position sensor then it is most likely configured to work within threshold values.
    In which case it would be possible to overcome the retention force enough to let the tool move in the taper as long as it didn't hit the threshold.

  16. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregormarwick View Post
    In which case it would be possible to overcome the retention force enough to let the tool move in the taper as long as it didn't hit the threshold.
    It would be interesting to see that toolholder shank and look for signs of fretting. I'm no expert at HSK holders, but it was my impression that the design should lessen fretting compared to steep taper under equivalent loads, but could suffer catastrophic failure before a steep taper holder would.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cameraman View Post
    They use powermill and have done numerous 5 axis demos on their HAAS UMC 750.

    [...] There are some multi axis roughing tool paths that are pretty amazing that I would have thought would be up his alley/ street.
    I would love to learn more about 5-axis helical drilling.

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  20. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by meowkat View Post
    I would love to learn more about 5-axis helical drilling.
    I don't know about the "Drilling" you have in mind,

    But as I'm sure you are aware usually roughing on 5 axis machines is carried out in a very 3 axis way with orthogonal positioning (for example Trochoidal milling strategies carried out in a stepped 2 1/2 D way with various 90 degree rotations in combination. ) .

    multiaxis-roughing.jpg

    ^^^ This is what I have in mind ~ sim-5 axis roughing strategies , not sure what tools they have in mind for that (From SolidCam)

    "The new Multiaxis Roughing operation is used to rough out pocket shaped geometries. You can specify the inputs for floor, wall and ceiling surfaces which SolidCAM uses to identify the constraints of the roughing tool path. Two types of strategies are available: Offset-Based and Adaptive Roughing."

    Products like Hypermill (OpenMind) have really kicked the door in on more efficient finishing and semi finishing strategies using barrel cutters / lens shaped profiles (on end mills) / circle segments etc. Pencil mills … basically more artfully using the flank of theses newer (ish) cutters. BUT not just software driven and cutter geometry driven now sim 5 axis machines can move more accurately than they typically used to on all 5 axes rather than positional rotary axes with precise 3d contouring.

    In a large volume production environment of high quality complex parts that can dramatically reduce cycle times over more conventional tool paths, tooling and positioning / dynamics / sim-5 moves (Something I would have thought TITAN would be super pumped to get into... Although his focus is on super difficult to machine materials from aerospace. ).

    With Titan's NEW DMU 50 3rd gen and passion for 5 axis and automation you'd think he'd be doing more 5 axis types things on his nice machine rather than trying to snap endmills ---> (I'll come back to that later ). Wondering if there's a support gap there ?

    SolidCAM CAM Software: Simultaneous 5x Milling

    ^^^ @meowkat Here's a link to more general range of 5 axis newer capabilities (from SolidCam *) including positional drilling, + other bits and pieces you might be interested in.

    __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ___






    ^^^ Fast forward to 1:35 for the DMU 50 3rd gen.

    ^^^ This is also what a DMU 50 3rd gen is capable of Nice bottle mold bottom using mono crystalline diamond tooling... Straight off the machine no polishing afterwards... Yeah shiny-ness does not 100% equate to accuracy but the machine has to be able to move pretty damn well to do this ---> Not sure of these were mainly 3 axis contouring moves (I suspect they are) rather than sim -5 axis moves.

    __________________________________________________ ____

    * No affiliation

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  22. #74
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    Default Bigger Picture...



    ^^^ Bigger picture this is what Titan is trying to swing...

    Key visualizations of massive halls full of HAAS equipment and alternate halls with scores and scores of DMG MORI machines. from 5:40 to 7:00

    Sort of national vocational training center based in Chicago ~ Approx. budget $60 M with the idea that other such centers around the country can revitalize urban centers and bring jobs back to the USA and train a "New work force" - There's a lot that can be said about that. Interesting what Gilroy says about Apple.

    It's certainly an ambitious yet potentially worth while project (depending on who actually gets exploited in this situation ).

    But clearly there is a "Gap" that government doesn't see it or "Get it" right now , maybe lack of vision and different priorities and private industry is not seeing the ROI. I.e. DMG Mori are not going to stump up a whole bunch of FREE machines nor is the government local or state level gonna pay for that either. $60M is not that much.

    Machine tool industry has been making less sales over the past two years and in some instances are readying themselves for a bit of a slow down in 2020.

    Is Titan just trying to snap Kennametal end mills (incredible materials science) in his DMU 50 3rd gen just out of sheer frustration ?

    HAAS has a better track record for philanthropy and maybe the HAAS UMC 500 might be a better fit for education and training than the DMU 50 3rd gen per se ? Given costs and bomb proof-ed ness.

    __________________________________________________ _

    In the USA seems like a private foundation should be set up with a endowment (a bit like the Getty Trust) If Titan wants to achieve his goals so that that can be managed in perpetuity i.e. independent and generates an income for decades if not a century or more to buy new machines / robots training facilities and pay the salaries of training instructors + partnerships with industry like what Titan is already pursuing. Independent of government AND the wills and ROIs / conflicts of interest with private industry...

    Titan just needs to find an aged multi billionaire that is passionate about machining but wants a useful / enduring legacy perhaps ?

    Meanwhile we'll watch him "Murder" other hard-to-machine materials in his DMU 50 (3rd gen). Maybe Quaser could sponsor him for a 3 axis 50 taper Boxed way machine he can try and snap endmills and stall spindles all day long ;-)

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    Quote Originally Posted by cameraman View Post

    Looks like there's actually some good stuff one their website if you could actually read it ?
    They have an impressive inventory. I've always had to call to get what I needed though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hardplates View Post
    At quick glance it looks like tool holder deflection but I've learned modern videos can be very unreliable due to the image stabilization crap. I've taken several videos where at first the spindle appears to be moving in the X and Y axis when it is not. I'm not a video guy but I'm going to assume when the camera senses movement of a large section of the frame it assumes that is because the camera is unsteady and moves a smaller part of the frame instead. This can make for some pretty funky looking videos.

    There is obviously something bad going on and that cut is beyond the capabilities of that setup, but all I am saying is the video can't be used to make an accurate determination of where the flex/distortion is coming from because we don't know what kind of new fangled digital processing stuff was used. If a proper high speed camera with an independent datum in frame was used I would give some credit to video analysis. IMO
    Good point about video.
    It almost looks like rolling shutter effect might have something to do with it.
    YouTube
    YouTube

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    Quote Originally Posted by MattiJ View Post
    Good point about video.
    It almost looks like rolling shutter effect might have something to do with it.
    YouTube
    YouTube
    Those are cool videos but in the Titan video the feed rate is slow... So a rolling shutter effect will be minimized, Titan waves his hands around faster than the feed rate of the tool and you don't see his arms bent into surreal shapes... Also there is stroboscopic effects too on those cool videos you cite that are separate from Global shutter effects / jello. On the Titan video you can see the inadvertent scalloped walls of the cut + corresponding sounds with the tool wandering and the machine trying to pull everything back on track (machine has Heidenhain scales) ...

    Titan used to do many many cutting tests on HAAS-es basically exploding / snapping endmills to find the limits of extreme cutting conditions and then lever back from that point to find the maximum feeds and speeds, chip loads and DOCs etc.

    Over the years he's had a lot of 'Flack" for that but his main planc is efficiency for $ and also considers spindle replacement on a more regular basis as being viable to his business model. I.e. rip through material at 1000 IPM vs 200 as you are not going to make money that way (and be competitive) being ultra slow and careful.

    He's definitely mangling that machine all be it temporarily... But he has a lot of experience of taking machines to their limits and kinda getting away with it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cameraman View Post
    Those are cool videos but in the Titan video the feed rate is slow...
    There is definitely something weird going on with the machine x-axis but my point was that because of rolling shutter it's kinda hard to say what is moving and what is flexing when rolling shutter is combined with the spindle vibrating.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MattiJ View Post
    There is definitely something weird going on with the machine x-axis but my point was that because of rolling shutter it's kinda hard to say what is moving and what is flexing when rolling shutter is combined with the spindle vibrating.
    Everyone keeps citing rolling shutter. I won't go into a technical discussion of camera stuff, but just look at the floor of that cut - that shit is full up Machu Picchu. Obviously the end mill was moving in weird ways given how tiered the floor is from what was programmed as a simple slot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MattiJ View Post
    There is definitely something weird going on with the machine x-axis but my point was that because of rolling shutter it's kinda hard to say what is moving and what is flexing when rolling shutter is combined with the spindle vibrating.
    Indeed (I agree), ~ for many years on cinematic forums that I have been on and the advent of digital cinematography that rolling shutter artifacts can be very problematic in certain situations with even $300K cameras (unless you have equipment that uses a sensor that is globally shuttered ), so there are more characteristic artifacts one gets used to seeing and dealing with.

    The cut he's taking is completely insane, and the end result and sounds it makes in cut speak for themselves. [i.e. as you indicate the spindle/ tool holder / cutter should not be "Vibrating" but it's not chatter per se, it's a low frequency pull to the left (perhaps) that the machine is trying to compensate + other numerous dynamics. ].

    BUT he's trying to see if he can break that end mill and that machine is the most powerful that he currently has on his shop floor.

    I gotta admit those chips that are produced by that cut (to me) are completely mind bending kinda awesome yet nuts at the same time.

    I think gkoenig's /OP sentiment was like - great that Titan gets a FREE DMU 50 3rd gen to do inappropriate demonstrations on that nearly destroy the machine... Like wouldn't it be great if we could all get FREE machines to do stupid Sh*t on (and be sponsored for that ) ;-) lol.

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