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Abene Spindle Disassembly - Experience Requested

cwilcox

Cast Iron
Joined
Aug 26, 2010
Location
Canada
The abene manual mentions regreasing the spindle bearings. I have the proper grease and new seals and the machine all apart but I'm not certain how to get the spindle shaft out of the casting.
Currently I have removed all the top end parts except the deep groove ball bearing radial type. ie drawbar, locknut and tabbed washer, thrust bearing.

I have also removed the retaining ring holding the ring gear.

Not sure where to go from here. I have a 40 ton press with lots of working space but don't want to break anything.
Anyone that has already been through this task care to lend their knowledge.
Thanks
 
Can't help you with this , but would be interested in photos of the questionable area....
Always like to see how other makers handled their designs....

Any chance there is a parts drawing/section drawing of the spindle assembly?
Cheers Ross
 
I'm at work right now but can post a section. I have removed all parts with a blue dot. 12-15, 18-29, 31, 35, 36.
Currently I want to remove the spindle shaft, 1. I think I could support the casting vertically on the base, item 3 and push on the top of the spindle 1 which would allow the ring gear 10 to slide up the shaft 1. But I'm a bit nervous about causing damage to the bearing 4 when items 8 or the key 11 pass through it. Also I don't have experience with these roller bearings. Can the cage and rollers of item 4 just slip down and leave teh outer ring of 4 behind held in item 5? It appears that the ID of the outer cage of 4 is large enough for 8 to pass through it but if I break it this is game over for this mill.

Not worried about the seal 2 as I have the upper one 24 apart and understand how they are constructed.

Any help is appreciated.

The picture should enlarge if you hit it.

Abene Spindle.jpg
 
Looks to me as though you need to remove part #3 the ring that retains the forward bearing and seal.
Looks like you have removed the snap ring behind the bevel gear....Once #3 is removed believe you can drive the spindle froward and out.
You must overcome the fit between the rear bearing and the spindle....Assuming you have removed everything to the rear of that deep groove ball bearing.
Guessing that the fit on the rear bearing is not ultra tight, but press is safer than clubbing on the shaft as you are less likely to dimple the bearing using constant force as
opposed to hammering on the shaft end....Might try easy blows with a dead blow hammer first...just to see if she will move.
Go slow and easy on the press pressure....make sure everything is square
Looks like it should move forward some then might get tighter when you start moving the bevel gear along the shaft.
Cheers Ross

Additional thoughts:
Looks like there is some sort of drilling just behind the front bearing...Perhaps you can grease the assembly without disassembly....
Hope you carefully measured the setup height of the rear ball thrust bearing....Setting that bearing for proper clearance will be critical. Don't believe you
will want to run that bearing tight or with preload.....Most thrust bearings like that need some clearance to live....
 
Thanks, I'll re-read this tonight. I did take two careful measurements before disassembly with the thoughts of thrust brg preload and also gear mesh. Both are adjustable on this unit if I understand the schematic properly. I'll use rear axle gear marking compound to check the mesh regardless though as I don't want to ruin parts.
 
I have a similar spindle, but with 2 roller bearings. The outer race of the big bearing came off easily, but I have difficulties with the inner one, that sits on the shaft, near of spindle nose (#4 on the diagram). The problem is - I can't push on the bearing, because there is a metal washer (seal?) between the bearing and the spindle nose that is going to deform if I apply pressure on it (#34 on the diagram). I just found, that 2 out of 4 threaded holes on the business end of the spindle are hollow, i.e. they go all the way through the spindle nose (#37 on the cwilcox's diagram above). I wander, if those are supposed to help with bearing removal?

Thanks!
new_spindle.jpg
spindle.jpg
 
Ive been here before but my spindle is a different design with a single tapered roller bearing on the top and bottom. Cant remember any major gotchas, bottom cover off, bearing nuts off and press out, it doesnt take much at all.
 
I just found, that 2 out of 4 threaded holes on the business end of the spindle are hollow, i.e. they go all the way through the spindle nose (#37 on the cwilcox's diagram above). I wander, if those are supposed to help with bearing removal?
/QUOTE]
Yes, they are likely intended for you to insert a brass punch or similar to unseat the inner ring. I have seen that arrangement on lathes and mills.
 
Looks like parts #34-33 are bolts and ring #2 has to come off to allow the spindle front seal #3 and the spindle with the front bearing to be removed all at the same time?
Dan
PS Just realized I was looking at a years old post and drawing makes what I added irrelevant.
 
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My opinion: #37 on my spindle is a setscrew for adjusting the gear mesh with the other bevel gear in the headstock. Seem to recall I have 4 setscrews and I put another one in each hole to lock them when I rebuilt mine. However it looks like your spindle uses a shim #3 to perform that gear adjustment task.

If the punch through holes attempt fails you can always cut the cage off, remove the rollers and make something in the lathe to grab the lip of the inner ring.
 
I did it! Thank you everyone for helping out with this!

It worked as expected - I was able to punch the bearing race through the holes in the spindle nose.

Unfortunately, the metal ring, which works as a shim and as a splash guard for the bearing, was damaged in the process. I'm not sure, how bad is that - the new bearing may not get seated all the way down because of non-flat shim. I may need to turn a fixture to flatten the shim back.

Meanwhile, I have to order new bearings and there is a question: how do I find bearings with the same tolerance class?

Old bearings were P5 for the bigger one and P6 for smaller one, which should correspond to ABEC-5 and ABEC-3.
There are bunch of offerings on eBay, but sellers never state tolerance class and it's not seen on pictures. Also, if I get it right, aside from tolerance, there is a bunch of other parameters - preload, interference fit (tight, loose).
How do I get right bearings?
Bearing sizes are 30207 and 32013X.

Thanks!
IMG_1983.jpgHole In spindle
IMG_7236.jpgMetal ring/shim
IMG_1050.jpgBearings
 
How do I get right bearings?

Probably other people here can answer this. But if not, I have a suggestion.

I have written to SKF several times to ask questions about bearings, and always gotten helpful and competent replies from people who were clearly engineers or at least trained in the relevant engineering. So, since your current bearings are SKF, send a photo of them to SKF sales and ask them to tell you what suitable replacements would be. Be sure to tell them that the application is a greased vertical milling machine spindle running at max 2000 rpm (or whatever the max speed is).
 
Abene is still in business, yes?
Some time ago i replaced the "Gamet" precision spindle bearings that are fitted to the headstock on a Harrison 1330S CNC lathe.....
Some calls and e-mails to Harrison produced a factory setup, adjustment and run in data sheet, which included a spec. for the amount of grease to "pack" in each bearing when installed....Invaluable when fitting a set of tapered roller bearings that cost north of $2000.00............................
Cheers Ross
 
Thank you everybody - all this information is super useful - I will try to reach out to SKF and/or Abene.
 
Ok - here is what SKF says:
They are 2 separate bearings:

30207 J2/Q
30213 J2/Q

Both of the above bearings are manufactured to a low precision (abec 1 only). If you are only talking about a couple of bearings SKF would not offer in a higher precision. If you talking about thousands of bearings you might have a shot at having SKF quote them.
Simpler words, mass-produced SKF bearings of this size, which we see on eBay, are only ABEC-1. Higher precision is a custom order that starts from 1000pcs. Bummer.

Maximum runout of ABEC-1 is 0.0003" (from here: Ball Bearings ABEC Standard Tolerances Data - Engineers Edge )

Maybe it's worth checking with other bearing manufacturers.
 
Ok - here is what SKF says:

Simpler words, mass-produced SKF bearings of this size, which we see on eBay, are only ABEC-1. Higher precision is a custom order that starts from 1000pcs. Bummer.

Maximum runout of ABEC-1 is 0.0003" (from here: Ball Bearings ABEC Standard Tolerances Data - Engineers Edge )

Maybe it's worth checking with other bearing manufacturers.

I'll probably be on my own here, but a good while ago I watched a video of guy who sorts ACME screw machines for a living, inc replacing spindle bearings. In the video it was general chitchat about how he goes about things but there was one interesting bit about a conversation hed previously had with a Timken guy who told him, the only difference between a P grade bearing and a standard bearing is inspection. In other words if they wanted say 50 P bearings they run a batch of 200 and inspect enough bearings to make the grades. He said as some of the bearings are becoming harder/impossible to find these days, hed fit a standard bearing after having it 'checked'. The line of thinking is in todays world of cnc etc he bearings in general are much closer than they were back int day.
Food for thought an if I manage to find it again (dont hold your breath) ill link it up.
 








 
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